Technical TwinAir Loss of turbo power

[InspiredBeard]

Hi everyone,

I’ve been to the forum a couple of times searching for answers or similar issues but never quite found an answer.

I’ve had an intermittent issue with my 2014 TwinAir 105hp. It happened again today during my commute, I have a 10-15min drive to the motorway and the car runs fine. I take it easy and let the engine warm up, hit the motorway and run there for another 20mins. I come off the motorway and gear down to idle at some lights. When I go to set off again I have zero turbo under acceleration and the car is running really low on power. If I get to the next set of lights and stop/start the ignition I can sometimes get the turbo back but not always.

Finish my work day and come back to the car cold and it’s fine again, same issue may or may not occur on the way back home.

Anyone any ideas? I’ve just had the car through MOT and a full service last week. It’s got new plugs, oil, filters etc and the issue is still appearing intermittently. On a separate possibly related note I also spotted that the Aircon unit wouldn’t ramp up to full power when I pushed the de-mist button today. The display read HI but the fan didn’t ramp up and push out any air, I had to manually increase the fan speed to de-mist the windscreen.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi
One candidate..
The 500s tend to suffer damaged Intercooler pipework..

That really messes with power

Your Climate system may benefit from a Reset

 

[InspiredBeard]

Hi
One candidate..
The 500s tend to suffer damaged Intercooler pipework..

That really messes with power

Your Climate system may benefit from a Reset

Thanks for the reply!

I’ll see if I can find a diagram of the intercooler piping to see if I can check/trace it and look for damage.

For the climate reset is that just a case of pulling or replacing the fuse?

 

[The Panda Nut]

My brother had a Renault5 GT turbo that did this. It was a cracked pipe in the induction side, Sometimes it would close up and the car would be OK others it would open and he had no power. It took months to find it,

 

[puntodeltathema]

Does the engine management light come on? If so the issue may be "limp mode" more than an immediate turbo issue per se. One issue on the TAs is that the hole in the wastegate actuator rod-end becomes oval and the associated play in certain situations (and resulting impact on pressure) confuses the engine management which switches into limp mode. Easy to check for play in the wastegate rod. NB recorded errors in this situation may point to the wastegate solenoid when it's actually this issue with the mechanical linkage....

 

[InspiredBeard]

Does the engine management light come on? If so the issue may be "limp mode" more than an immediate turbo issue per se. One issue on the TAs is that the hole in the wastegate actuator rod-end becomes oval and the associated play in certain situations (and resulting impact on pressure) confuses the engine management which switches into limp mode. Easy to check for play in the wastegate rod. NB recorded errors in this situation may point to the wastegate solenoid when it's actually this issue with the mechanical linkage....

There is no sign of engine management, I have had that previously when I needed a new spark plug and battery the car would occasionally go in to limp mode and struggle to idle but this seems different.

 

[Jayteewright]

Does the engine management light come on? If so the issue may be "limp mode" more than an immediate turbo issue per se. One issue on the TAs is that the hole in the wastegate actuator rod-end becomes oval and the associated play in certain situations (and resulting impact on pressure) confuses the engine management which switches into limp mode. Easy to check for play in the wastegate rod. NB recorded errors in this situation may point to the wastegate solenoid when it's actually this issue with the mechanical linkage....

Sorry to hijack This sounds like the problem I have, are there any fixes if the wastegate spindle has a bit of play in it, the hole on the actuator rod is still round.

 

[puntodeltathema]

Whilst not a full solution, would increasing the pre-load on the wastegate help? i.e. winding the rod-end in a bit on the thread on the rod so the wastegate is more firmly closed and maybe take up any slop? Noting the "rest" position on the TwinAir (engine off) is wastegate open.

Need to be a bit careful though I guess.....

Others who play with turbos more often may have views

 

[varesecrazy]

Sorry to hijack This sounds like the problem I have, are there any fixes if the wastegate spindle has a bit of play in it, the hole on the actuator rod is still round.

Hi,

Lots of good experience and info on here..

The Panda 2012 section has the most "hands on" Owners

Search in Advanced should help no end

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hi
One candidate..
The 500s tend to suffer damaged Intercooler pipework..

That really messes with power

Your Climate system may benefit from a Reset

My brother had an R5Turbo Renault that did exactly this. I rode in it down to Cornwall doing it. It turned out to be a cracked intercooler pipe. When its engine moved one way it would cause the pipe to flex and the crack opened up, running along the length of a plastic pipe. When it closed up again the loss of power was not really noticable. Loss of effective boost will cause this. Suffice to say that although a company car under full maintenance, he eventually found the faul hinself, I would try and pressure test the whole inter cooler and all the air supply pipes. Then look at the manifold side pipes and gaskets. Lastly the pressure relief side of the turbo. This all needs to be checked before doing anything else. There is probably quite a few feet of pipes to be checked. There must be a boot sensor somewhere too, but I would expect soem faults to show in teh ECU. I had a Citroen BX turbo which lost power which turned out to be a detached piep but that of course was not intermittent like the Renault 5.

The other alternative is the turbo bearings are failing and it may be pre cursor to engine failure, I would take the thing to a turbo specialist and see what they suggest,

 

[Jayteewright]

Does anyone have access to any working diagrams or workshop manual for the 2014 twinair

 

[varesecrazy]

Does anyone have access to any working diagrams or workshop manual for the 2014 twinair

85hp, in what body?

 

[Jayteewright]

85hp, in what body?

Yes 85hp, it's 2014, sorry to sound dumb, how do you mean "in what body?"

 

[varesecrazy]

Yes 85hp, it's 2014, sorry to sound dumb, how do you mean "in what body?"

85 bhp Twinair fitted to
Panda, punto, 500 (and 500L)

Probably similar turbo.. But pipes and wiring will change

 

[Jayteewright]

85 bhp Twinair fitted to
Panda, punto, 500 (and 500L)

Probably similar turbo.. But pipes and wiring will change

It's a 2014 twinair 500

 

[varesecrazy]

What kind of Service manual?

Turbo, electrical or Twinair Motor

Very little Twinair mechanical guidance around...


Maybe the Alfa forums do better
(mito 2012/13)?

 

[Jayteewright]

What kind of Service manual?

Turbo, electrical or Twinair Motor

Very little Twinair mechanical guidance around...


Maybe the Alfa forums do better
(mito 2012/13)?

I'm having turbo issues so turbo and possibly motor

 

[resurface]

I might have the same problem, did you find any solution?

Mine seems fine on «normal» driving, but if I’m driving up a hill and pushing it a bit it can suddenly loose power so much it sinks in speed. If I stop somewhere and restarts the engine it’s 100% back… it feels like an electrical/brain/limp problem - some sort of overload/safety issue.

Panda 4x4 Cross 2013
Twinair .9L