Lancia 1.4 12v 59kw 80hp 1997 cranking too fast

[Lancija]

Hello i recently bought lancia ypsilon 1.4 12v 59 kw 80hp 1997 production year engine code 840a2000 which is fiat engine so im here to ask advice. I bought the car and the engine was running ok and i took it to mechanic for timing belt replacement.When i took the car after the timing belt replacement was running fine eben better than before. But the other day when i started the engine started to have metallic sound and like running on three cylinders after a while i was struggling to keep it running and then it died not wanting even to crank. I moved a litle bit the car being on hill and in gear and it started to crank but like with no compression the engine cranks like the spark plugs are removed cranks too fast and easy.This all happened in time frame of 10 minutes. Could it be broken camshaft or bent valves or something that my mechanic did or didnt do because this all happened a day after timing belt replacement. I called the mechanic and he just said oh well it is what it is you need a new engine. What is your advice should i insist on him to check if it's his mistake or it was just my luck and i should continue to search new engine and what could it be the problem with this one? Thank you in advance for all the help and advice and regards to you all.
Sorry for my bad spelling

 

[bugsymike]

Hello i recently bought lancia ypsilon 1.4 12v 59 kw 80hp 1997 production year engine code 840a2000 which is fiat engine so im here to ask advice. I bought the car and the engine was running ok and i took it to mechanic for timing belt replacement.When i took the car after the timing belt replacement was running fine eben better than before. But the other day when i started the engine started to have metallic sound and like running on three cylinders after a while i was struggling to keep it running and then it died not wanting even to crank. I moved a litle bit the car being on hill and in gear and it started to crank but like with no compression the engine cranks like the spark plugs are removed cranks too fast and easy.This all happened in time frame of 10 minutes. Could it be broken camshaft or bent valves or something that my mechanic did or didnt do because this all happened a day after timing belt replacement. I called the mechanic and he just said oh well it is what it is you need a new engine. What is your advice should i insist on him to check if it's his mistake or it was just my luck and i should continue to search new engine and what could it be the problem with this one? Thank you in advance for all the help and advice and regards to you all.
Sorry for my bad spelling

I would say it was 100% down to the mechanic to correct the failure, though it does sound like a second hand engine is the cheapest option.
Unless he can prove it was a faulty part that failed and his supplier agreed to pay.
Either way it shouldn't be your liability.
After fifty years in the motortrade, I would have felt sick to my stomach if I was in that position and I am happy to say it never happened to me, but if it did I would have fixed it for free! Probably why most of my customers I had for over 25 years.

 

[varesecrazy]

Maybe the belt has failed..

and you are just spinng the crank with little compression resistance

Good luck!

Do let us know what is found

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Maybe the belt has failed..

and you are just spinng the crank with little compression resistance

Good luck!

Do let us know what is found

Sounds like it doesn't it Charlie? Or maybe the tensioner came loose and let the belt jump teeth? Whatever, it sounds likely to be serious.

As you say Bugsy, had that situation arisen with us the boss would have insisted on examining the vehicle in detail and, had we been at fault, any repairs would have been at no cost to the customer. I'm proud to be able to say, comebacks were very rare but our boss, also the owner, was as good as his word. He rated customer satisfaction very highly. I remember once being told to fit two new tyres to the front of a car which had been sold the day before. The tyres were a long way from being illegal but were unevenly worn and I know the wheel alignment had been done on it during it's pre-sales service. The customer complained and our boss didn't even argue, just gave him the tyres. He said to me it was worth it because the customer would probably speak favourably about it to his friends and was also likely to keep coming to us for services and maybe even his next purchase. We, in the workshop, were a happy band and proud to work there - even if it was like wringing blood from a stone trying to get a wage rise out of him!

 

[bugsymike]

Sounds like it doesn't it Charlie? Or maybe the tensioner came loose and let the belt jump teeth? Whatever, it sounds likely to be serious.

As you say Bugsy, had that situation arisen with us the boss would have insisted on examining the vehicle in detail and, had we been at fault, any repairs would have been at no cost to the customer. I'm proud to be able to say, comebacks were very rare but our boss, also the owner, was as good as his word. He rated customer satisfaction very highly. I remember once being told to fit two new tyres to the front of a car which had been sold the day before. The tyres were a long way from being illegal but were unevenly worn and I know the wheel alignment had been done on it during it's pre-sales service. The customer complained and our boss didn't even argue, just gave him the tyres. He said to me it was worth it because the customer would probably speak favourably about it to his friends and was also likely to keep coming to us for services and maybe even his next purchase. We, in the workshop, were a happy band and proud to work there - even if it was like wringing blood from a stone trying to get a wage rise out of him!

Your workshop sounds very familiar to me Jock, especially re pay rises. I wouldn't have started my own small business in 1982 if the boss had agreed to a £5 per 40 hour week pay rise! Sounds pathetic by today's standards.
To me it is the difference from having a garage run from the sales side, working on short shortsightedly "spanking" everyone who comes through the door, making a quick profit and sales commission or giving good service with a fair profit, having lifelong customers and their family and friends also. I never had to advertise, personal recommendation kept me busy enough to make a living.

 

[Lancija]

Thank you all for reply. I opened the top of the engine and timing belt and everything seems to be ok. So that leaves the block, piston, piston ring or something down there since the engine now is seezed it only hits and it doesn't turn. I'm planning to open the sump and look from underneath and i will let you know what i find. It's frustrating that i cannot adapt other size engine since i cannot find other good engine 1.4 12v in my country for now.

 

[jackwhoo]

Before you open anything else. Check that the valve timing is correct(synchronise crankshaft and cam shaft)
Perhaps your mechanic should be looking at this problem with own eyes.

 

[koalar]

You need to check the timing and or compression

I don’t know your engine

The panda 1.2 makes 220 psi timed correctly and 150 one tooth out

You can tell the difference quite easy by turning the crank clockwise with a socket and ratchet. You should feel quite a lot of resistance as each piston the top of its stroke and hold its pressure. Each 4 should be the same. If all four are very low but the same something is wrong with the timing. If it stops suddenly like a mechanical stop the valve and pistons are hiring don’t force it

Helps if you turned a working engine over first

If one or two are different then the valves or piston aren’t sealing correctly within that cylinder

 

[Lancija]

Thank you very much i will listen to your advice and not touch anything until mechanic sees it and i will let you know the outcome. Kind regards to you all.

 

[bugsymike]

You need to check the timing and or compression

I don’t know your engine

The panda 1.2 makes 220 psi timed correctly and 150 one tooth out

You can tell the difference quite easy by turning the crank clockwise with a socket and ratchet. You should feel quite a lot of resistance as each piston the top of its stroke and hold its pressure. Each 4 should be the same. If all four are very low but the same something is wrong with the timing. If it stops suddenly like a mechanical stop the valve and pistons are hiring don’t force it

Helps if you turned a working engine over first

If one or two are different then the valves or piston aren’t sealing correctly within that cylinder

I tried to identify your engine in other vehicles but very little about it in Autodata manuals whether Fiat, Lancia or Alfa Romeo.
In wikipedia it says:-The top-of-the-line 1.4 12 valve "Pratola Serra" engine with 59 kW (80 PS) was carried over from the Fiat Bravo/Brava.[7] Given the limited success of the Pratola Serra engine, it was soon replaced.
So not a popular engine.
I failed to find much relating to it on the Fiat Bravo side, maybe some one else on the Forum has more information.
From what you described at the beginning, it sounded like the cam tensioner failed for whatever reason, which caused the initial noises, trying to "bump start "it wouldn't have helped, but I suspect by then the damage was done.
Before dropping the sump I would check the timing side.
It may be a case of having a new cambelt and tensioner fitted correctly, but I suspect the cylinder head will need to come off and possibly some new valves.
Re another engine the later version had the Fiat "super Fire " engine, but converting may be more trouble than repairing the existing engine.
I take it your "mechanic" is not accepting liability.

 

[Lancija]

I tried to identify your engine in other vehicles but very little about it in Autodata manuals whether Fiat, Lancia or Alfa Romeo.
In wikipedia it says:-The top-of-the-line 1.4 12 valve "Pratola Serra" engine with 59 kW (80 PS) was carried over from the Fiat Bravo/Brava.[7] Given the limited success of the Pratola Serra engine, it was soon replaced.
So not a popular engine.
I failed to find much relating to it on the Fiat Bravo side, maybe some one else on the Forum has more information.
From what you described at the beginning, it sounded like the cam tensioner failed for whatever reason, which caused the initial noises, trying to "bump start "it wouldn't have helped, but I suspect by then the damage was done.
Before dropping the sump I would check the timing side.
It may be a case of having a new cambelt and tensioner fitted correctly, but I suspect the cylinder head will need to come off and possibly some new valves.
Re another engine the later version had the Fiat "super Fire " engine, but converting may be more trouble than repairing the existing engine.
I take it your "mechanic" is not accepting liability.

Yes the engine does not have a great reputation so there is a very little literature anout this engine. Yes my mechanic is not accepting liability but i will make him just to take a look and i will see what he will say. I have other lancia ypsilon year 2003 to but this one with 188a4000 fiat engine 1.2 8v 44kw and its good for now it has lpg installed and my wife drives it to work i bought it in August and for now im happy what is offering. I will let you know the outcome with the trouble one 1.4 12v