General engine + gearbox help

[olielee]

hi my gearbox got a hole in it recently and i need a new one. i have a 1.4 16v fire engine. i was wondering what other gearboxes fit?

i was also thinking of doing a turbo conversion. can i swap the required bits off a punto gt?

thanks guys.

 

[Big Black Stilo]

if memory serves me right this is a matching numbers part.

I.e if its 1.4 3dr car it has to be the box from the 1.4 3dr as the 5dr boxes are differently mounted

also i think the 1.2 box only fits the 1.2

i maybe wrong on the last part

as for turbo'ing it, it would cost more than the cars worth, probably cause lots of problems and it would be cheaper to go get another car

 

[olielee]

thats a bit backwards about it being a 3dr or a 5dr. why would it be different?
so youre saying no other box will fit apart from a 1.4 3dr?

i was thinking it would be quite cheap if i could swap over the bits from a gt, such as the head, turbo, manifold, etc. or is it a totally different engine?

 

[Big Black Stilo]

its because the 3dr and 5dr are very different cars underneath. iirc the only part they share is the bonet panel.

Fiat didnt do a turbo petrol version of the stilo. some greek lads have converted theirs, but only due to the lack of an Abarth model and huge import taxes.

Because its not a turbo engine, i dont know exactly how they do it but you need to strengthen and uprate many engine parts, as well as make a lot of modifications to whats there. Also they had to uprate clutches and also use the gear box from a punto GT turbo (however this is not a straight fit at all)

 

[olielee]

Ive now found a good used gearbox from a 1.2 16v 3dr stilo so the mounts should be the same, also its a FIRE as well so im thinking it should be fine to replace mine. I just need someone to confirm it will fit for me

thanks again..

 

[Big Black Stilo]

as long as yours is a 1.2 16v 3dr stilo thats FIRE, you should be fine, however i note your car is a 1.4.

IIRC from other threads ( ) the 1.2 and 1.4 engines are interchangeable so this box should go on it.

be warned, the clutch is different on the 1.2 to the 1.4, but it should work. I'll ask about

 

[john55]

The box may look the same and fit, but It will have different gear ratios inside. You need a gearbox from the same size engine and same BHP as yours, so that the ratios will be the same.

 

[olielee]

as long as yours is a 1.2 16v 3dr stilo thats FIRE, you should be fine, however i note your car is a 1.4.

IIRC from other threads ( ) the 1.2 and 1.4 engines are interchangeable so this box should go on it.

be warned, the clutch is different on the 1.2 to the 1.4, but it should work. I'll ask about

Thanks :worship:

I think my clutch is on its way out ne way, fiat want £1800 for a new gearbox and clutch and I cant find any other 1.4 boxes so hopefully this works out.

 

[dave]

bits off a punto gt are out of the question. totally different engine

not sure on the mountings being different but fiat do tend to keep the holes the same on the box's and just change the shape of the mounts them selves so they can use same box for lots of cars, all fire boxes match at the engine end.
like said above gear ratios in side probably wont be the same, not sure how much difference there is on them, but normally fitting a box from a lower cc engine with give you quicker acceleration and a slower top end. its up to you to decide if you can live with that

 

[arc]

the 1.2 16v box will fit and work, any FIRE gearbox will fit and work - but as has been said, it is a matter of gear ratios. Off hand i don't know what ratios each type of box runs, and obviously you want one the same as, or as close as the box that you had. I suspect the 1.2 16v box will be similar ratios to your old box.

all of the mounts mounting holes should be present, same with clutch and selector mechs, speed sensors, reverse switches etc - it should all swap from one box to another should it differ (but i doubt it will)


the clutch is different, it is larger one the 1.4 16v BUT this is down to the flywheel and makes no difference to the gearbox, so you'd need a clutch to fit the 1.4 16v, not one to fit whatever gearbox you end up using.

regarding a turbo conversion.. the engine is totally different to the PuntoGT engine, nothing from that old lump is of any use whatsoever, it's parts of the Tjet engines you'd want.

 

[olielee]

I think im gonna get my car back off fiat!! I just had a quick look the top speed only differs by 5mph between the two cars so i doubt theres that much of a difference in their ratios. Even if there is there's nothing wrong with a bit more acceleration Hopefully my old clutch is still ok..

Thanks guys

 

[Big Black Stilo]

I think im gonna get my car back off fiat!! I just had a quick look the top speed only differs by 5mph between the two cars so i doubt theres that much of a difference in their ratios. Even if there is there's nothing wrong with a bit more acceleration Hopefully my old clutch is still ok..

Thanks guys

thats also to do with the BHP difference in the two engines as well as ratios.

I cant see the ratios being that much different to be honest.

1st and 6th will probably be the same (as 6th is more of an overdrive gear for cruising anyways) jsut the other four maybe slightly different

 

[arc]

i'd def get it back.

whilst the box is off, i'd fit a new clutch anyway tho - they're not that expensive to buy, just labor for fitting them is a killer as the box has to come off, but as you're changing the box anyway.. it makes sense

 

[Big Black Stilo]

i'd def get it back.

whilst the box is off, i'd fit a new clutch anyway tho - they're not that expensive to buy, just labor for fitting them is a killer as the box has to come off, but as you're changing the box anyway.. it makes sense

i did that to be safe, i got a clutch for £90 or so. may have been £120, cant remember, but while the box is off, it can be done.

imagine how pissed off you'll be in 6 months if you have to take the box off again to change the clutch

 

[Big Black Stilo]

dont forget to let us know how you get on!

 

[olielee]

Well called up fiat this morning to cancel my gearbox order, but apparently they had already received the new one, and it was in the process of being fitted :bang:

I was wondering if anyone knows what caused it to break in the first place, all I know is that something came loose in the diff and made a hole, not really sure though as I didn't get a proper look.

Could it be something to do with the coilovers. (maybe increased angle of the drive shaft puts extra pressure on the diff). I also have 25mm spacers but I doubt that will cause any problems. The only reason I ask is because the car is new (17k).

Thanks guys

 

[Argonought]

I gather it's due to a pin which locks one of the gears in place. It has a tendency to fall out causing catastrophic damage to the casing.

On that basis, a new gearbox might be a better bet but I'd hang on to the guarantee

 

[Big Black Stilo]

as argo said, but i will add my tuppance worth!

my stilo was unmodified, and this happened. complain to fiat UK about it as your mileage is very low and a gear box should not have gone. they did my first one at 27k.

 

[Argonought]

my stilo was unmodified, and this happened. complain to fiat UK about it as your mileage is very low and a gear box should not have gone. they did my first one at 27k.

In my view it shouldn't happen at 17k or 27k (and nor should it happen 3 times on the same car )

Interestingly as the defect would seem to be due to a design/manufacturing defect then wear doesn't really come into the equation.

If we assume some pins, due to tolerance variations during manufacture, are a tighter fit then presumably this would make for a far more reliable gearbox. Also, I'd imagine some small degree of surface corrosion will tend to lock the pin in place with time.

Is it therefore possible that a statistical aberration may exist such that a 1.2/1.4/1.6 gearbox that has done (say) 86k may be considered more reliable than one that's only done 16K :chin:

 

[Big Black Stilo]

indeed.

personally as stated before, if the dealer hasnt made any attempt to say, look this isnt right for mileage, ring fiat up and complain.

you will really need to complain like you've never complained before, but they may send you a cheque back cover all if not part of the cost