1999 2.8 idtd Hymer b 544 MH, I believe the water pump on this is part of an engine mount, anyone experience of changing a water pump on the 2.8 idtd, been told they should be changed every 70000 kms mine has done just over 80000 kms, its not noisy and seems to be working fine. If I had a mechanic do it how many hours labour. Thanks
Technical 1999 2.8 idtd waterpump
- Thread starter mcubbin
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Technical 1999 2.8 idtd waterpump
Others may be able to advise better on the Ducato version , but I have fitted several over the years on my Iveco Dailys before retiring, with that 2.8 Sofim engine.
The Water pump and housing forms part of the cambelt tensioning system so with it all stripped out it makes good sense to fit a cambelt kit including tensioners and guides at the same time.
I am not sure on the Fiat version but on the Iveco there was a bypass pipe that may be worth changing also as it sealed in the water pump and the housing above, but check as that may only be the Iveco.
What I would say is you need some one experienced on them even though it is a straight forward job, as many on this Forum seem to have had major engine damage following so called professional garages replacing the cambelt.
Some involving the simple job of replacing the tensioner bearing and refitting the carrier swivel part to function properly, or the spacers where the plastic cover fits causing rubbing and eventual failure some 100s of miles further on.
The Iveco vesion being rear wheel drive was easily done in under two hours with the front panel off, but I assume yours is front wheel drive so working through the wheel arch etc.
Make sure to get the parts from a reputable supplier or main dealer for your version as some have had issues with different guide bearing diameters and numbers of teeth on the cam belt etc.
As I say make sure some one experienced on them as many garages these days see a whacking great camper van and have a heart attack when basically it is only a a straight forward mechanical job just needing a little common sense and a few spanners as opposed to plugging a diagnostic tool in to tell them what to replace.
The Water pump and housing forms part of the cambelt tensioning system so with it all stripped out it makes good sense to fit a cambelt kit including tensioners and guides at the same time.
I am not sure on the Fiat version but on the Iveco there was a bypass pipe that may be worth changing also as it sealed in the water pump and the housing above, but check as that may only be the Iveco.
What I would say is you need some one experienced on them even though it is a straight forward job, as many on this Forum seem to have had major engine damage following so called professional garages replacing the cambelt.
Some involving the simple job of replacing the tensioner bearing and refitting the carrier swivel part to function properly, or the spacers where the plastic cover fits causing rubbing and eventual failure some 100s of miles further on.
The Iveco vesion being rear wheel drive was easily done in under two hours with the front panel off, but I assume yours is front wheel drive so working through the wheel arch etc.
Make sure to get the parts from a reputable supplier or main dealer for your version as some have had issues with different guide bearing diameters and numbers of teeth on the cam belt etc.
As I say make sure some one experienced on them as many garages these days see a whacking great camper van and have a heart attack when basically it is only a a straight forward mechanical job just needing a little common sense and a few spanners as opposed to plugging a diagnostic tool in to tell them what to replace.
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Many thanks for taking the time to reply, but I am pretty sure in this engine, the 2.8 idtd the water pump is driven by the aux belt, the 2.8 jtd water pump is also not driven by the cam belt but it is recommended that you change them together because of the common access, but on the idtd the water pump is connected with one of the engine mounts.
It does vary between vehicle manufacturers and FWD or RWD on the same Sofim engine, but I think although separate aux. belt drive the spring tensioner for the cam belt is in the base of the water pump so could be affected even if cambelt not changed.
Although if going to all the effort of the water pump at that mileage cambelt change makes sense. I don't know for sure if this is similar to your 2.8 water pump with combined engine mount but on the lower end the casting with the hole in it is for the cambelt spring tensioner spring to fit.
Many Thanks
In answer to your original question , if you have a sofim engine , which i have no reason to suspect you don't , then the answer is yes . The water pump is part of the engine mount , and also holds the cambelt tensioner , so it is also a good opportunity to replace the cambelt at the same time , as the timing is also disturbed . The job is not difficult , but is time consuming , and also requires the removal of the alternator to improve access . There is a steel pipe behind the pump , that requires two nuts to be removed . I don't know about the mileage limit , but mine was 21 years old when i replaced it . Year 2000 , 2.8 idtd , left hook , Hymer 584 . I would advise removal of the pump pulley , before attempting to remove the pump itself , space is an issue . The pump is held in place by 4 bolts of dubious quality , so i would also strongly advise replacement of those at the same time . If the pump has not been replaced before , be careful . I pumped easing fluid on them , then bounced the struggle bar to release the tension . But here i had both the bumper , and intercooler removed , so good access from the front . Just for information , the struggle bar was nearly three feet long . I then supported the engine with two jacks , plus blocks to remove the pump . Support only the outer edge not the centre of the sump , this is only tin , and will collapse .
I rebuilt my entire cooling system , with quite literally only 3 of the original parts remaining , the engine , and both cooling fans . This took close on 13 months due to parts issues , coming from all over the EU , including Poland . There shouldn't be any problems with just a water pump , they are available in this country , from Coastal Motorhomes . I would also advise you consider replacing the steel pipe behind the block at the same time . It runs from the water pump to the thermostat housing , and i've heard of several on this age van failing . They are also available in this country , from the same place . Use the thin gasket supplied , not the thick one . The pipe costs around 20 quid , where an original from Fiat cost close on 150 (just don't ask me how i know okay) .
Now i will be honest , they are a bugger to remove and install , as space is a major issue . Mine came out via the battery tray area (which was also removed) , and comically replaced via the thermostat side . The problem being it slips under the turbo manifold , just above the blower itself . I would strongly advise placing this pipe in place , before refitting the new pump . I would guess this was where i went wrong , i fitted the pump first . As a pure guide , the pipe should take around twenty minutes , and depending on what you remove , the pump itself would be somewhere between 4 , and 8 hours . I can't really estimate anything better , as my vehicle was (and still is) having some quite major overhaul work done at the time , and access was excellent due to other parts already being removed . It's been off the road for close on three years now , and hopeful will return later this year , with many completely new , and fully overhauled systems.
Many Thanks for a comprehensive reply, from what you have said, I will probably have it done when the cam belt is due, about a year or so from now, and I may have a go at it myself, I would very much appreciate any tips for replacing the cam belt, I believe the fuel pump timing needs to be set also on this engine. Thanks again
Yes it does , your first move should be to aquire a camshaft locking set . Like this ;
The job is not difficult , but you must pay strict attention to what you're doing , and be methodical . Remember you will destroy the engine if you get it wrong . You will need a 36mm socket , and a long bar to set the timing gear . A screwdriver to set the tension lock , and a , 10 , 13 , 17mm spanner , preferable combination ring and open ended , plus one other socket , but i can't remember what size . Your biggest challenge will be removing the crankshaft pulley , and here i would suggest an electric impact driver . The original torque setting is 144 ft lbs , and you're gonna need to break that . It is possible with a long bar , but extremely difficult . You can move the vehicle with it .
You will need a complete timing kit , which should include two new idler wheels , plus a new tensioner . I personally would recommend a Gates kit . I would also suggest a new anti vibration plate , complete with a dowel , and new bolts , for the vibration plate , and upper idler wheel . Coastal Motorhomes should be able to supply all of this .
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Ah so you are mechanically minded , even better you've done one before , i was a little concerned with that . Like i said get it wrong , and it will destroy the engine , but we all have to start somewhere . My first was a little Citroen ax , following a head gasket replacement . Done a couple more since then , but it can be a bit worrying the first time .
The x230 is reasonable easy , even the access is good , unlike my Citroen , where just getting the covers off is a challenge . Manuals are as rare as hens teeth , but i managed to pick up a manual of sorts . Trouble is , it's for a non turbo 2.8 , not an intercooled 2.8 . My ace , is a mechanic who lives a couple of doors up , he used to own a garage , but has gone mobile now . The comical bit is i'm a trucker , he's the mechanic , if he hasn't got a certain tool handy , he knocks on my door first . You couldn't dream this up , but it's true . I borrow his tools , he borrows mine , if i like a tool he lends me , i go out and get my own . Got a brilliant brake bleeder , one man bleeder that works . I can bleed my brakes without any help at all .
Tension is automatic , just ensure you lock the engine both correctly and securely , before you start taking bits apart . I found my vibration plate semi seized , that's why i renewed it all , and why i recommend the same . I cleaned the timing area up , and i got the anti vibration plate moving freely again . But i honestly think the difficult bit , is getting the crank pulley bolt loose , i had to get my mate down to help . He brought his gun down , and literally wizzed it off , so I brought my own . The rest is straight forward . Watch the lower timing cover though , pay careful attention to the nut and washer sequence that passes through it , and make sure the belt clears it on reassembly . When i did mine , after i ran the engine , i discovered the cover was damaged . I thought it was the fan belt that did it , but when i examined it , the marks didn't match . It turned out to be the crank pulley behind the cover , i had assembled the washers wrong putting the cover closer than it should have been . I also replaced the vibration washer , before torquing down .
Thanks for that, great pity about the absence of a workshop manual, I did find this one, unfortunately in German, but I may give it a go and just gradually translate with Google a job at a time. https://www.tmbbooks.com/en/bestm_Fiatrep02.html Is there good access for an electric impact gun? When the time comes I will go over these posts again. But for the moment its travel time in a couple of days I am off on a 2 month trip in the van, to France Spain and Portugal. Many thanks again for taking the time to post such well thought out replies.
Plenty , you need to approach the bolt from the offside wheel well , the flywheel should be in front of you , just below the wheel pan , in front of the shocker . You may find an advantage in putting full right lock on the steering , for access and visibility to the timing system . I did remove the wheel the first time , but i worked since in this area without removing the wheel . I've also actually got the offside inner wing off , along with the front bumper , but to be honest , i don't think either will hinder access , so you shouldn't need to remove them . I've had to repair the bumper and front spat due to the previous owners care . Actually all four were in a poor state , i've done three , but the bumper was in a hell of a state . Took me two days to put that right , it's now painted and sitting in the van ready for refitting . I'm just trying to get some painting finished on the back end , while the weather's good .
The timing covers are in three parts , the top mainly covers the rocker cover , but the far off side is like a cap to the timing system . Two nuts , 10mm , hold that on , with very easy access . On a Hymer lift the bonnet , and there they are . The middle cover is held on by two bolts , One accessed through the bonnet , at the very front of the engine , right next to the injector pump . And the other accessed from below , just above/beside the steering pump .
By the way what type of steering pump do you have ? . I've assumed it's the same as mine , with the drive unit inside the engine . Do you have a pulley and belt , or is it just a casing with two pipes entering and exiting at the front , behind the intercooler ? .
The last cover is held on by three bolts , and a 17mm nut . Now this is the nut i mentioned earlier , be very careful to note the washer sequence !! . You should be able to get away with just removing the spring washer , and nut , but there may be a slightly larger washer to hold the cover . Get the sequence wrong , and the cover will rub on the timing pulley , and judging from the marks on mine the actual belt . This could very well accelerate belt wear , and likely cause a failure . I would leave this alone till your actually ready to remove the cover . Of the bolts , two stare back at you at the very bottom , but there is a third tucked away slightly higher , and outta sight . These like all the others are 10mm , socket access if fairly good on all , but extension bars will be needed for two . Then you will need to remove the crank bolt and pulley , and note there is also a shim that fits behind the pulley . Be careful to locate and recover this , it's very thin and easily damaged !! . Then finally that nut !! .
Now you may find it also an advantage to remove both the battery , and tray , to improve access , and visibility , but here again be careful . The power steering return hose is clipped to the underside , and this pipe is irreplaceable , quite literally . I tried for two years to locate one without success . Yes the power steering has had my attention too . Full rebuild , with only the rack original . I ended up making this one , fortunately it's low pressure . Every hose i've removed from my van , was 20 plus years old , they were date stamped 1999 . None were leaking , but at that age ? .
