Register Login
Shop4Parts - UK's largest online superstore for FIAT and Alfa Romeo parts
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 15-06-2017   #1
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 58
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Oil pressure sump

Hi.
I would like to know if the sump is under pressure, oil pressure I mean this on the jtd 2002 punto 1.9..
I made a post earlier about oil leak massive one after gearbox Change..
I think it's main seal but I'm just pondering this..
Obviously a pump takes the oil round but is the sump pressurised..
Maybe it's a silly question.

Cheers if you can help.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

dubsential is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 15-06-2017   #2
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 134
Thanks: 13
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Oil pressure sump

Never known any sump to have pressure in it unless it's a faulty engine
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

stephenbebop is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 15-06-2017   #3
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Ashington, Northumberland
Posts: 248
Thanks: 16
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Oil pressure sump

Quote Quote:
I would like to know if the sump is under pressure
If, by the main seal, you mean the crankshaft seal, yes, you can get an oil leak from there. Usually the oil will drip from the bellhouse/gearbox join .. and blow along the underside of the car as you drive. If you've put a new crankshaft seal in the problem should have been cured.

However, it seems as though you're hinting at another problem?

If the sump is being pressurised that points to an engine problem - broken piston ring or worn engine, though a broken piston ring usually results in a trail of blue smoke when you drive along ..

With an engine that is starting to show signs of age and wear, the upcoming piston compresses both fuel/air mix - and of course exhaust gases - which, in a worn engine can find their way down past the piston and consequently pressurise the sump.

That build up of pressure in the sump will seek a way to get to atmosphere in any way it can - usually removing the oil cap when the engine is running may reveal a 'chuffing' as fumes are escaping in time with the beat of the engine. Removing the dipstick with the engine running may reveal fumes being blown out at varying degrees of pressure.

I once owned an Escort 1.8 diesel. The first signs of a worn engine were the 2 rubber washers underneath the rocker cover nuts being forced outwards - because of the crankcase pressure.

If your crankcase is being pressurised because of a worn engine the oil in the system will be forced to atmosphere wherever it can - seals and gaskets.

I don't own a Fiat with a diesel engine - however, I'm aware that some owners have had problems with oil finding it's way to atmosphere via the injector seals.

The problem here - I believe that the Fiat 1.9 has a precombustion chamber - is that a build up of carbon and goo in the precombustion chambers raises the compression and results in exhaust gas/oily goo being forced to atmosphere past the injector seals.

Whether a build up in the precombustion chamber would cause the crankcase to become pressurised, I don't honestly know.

Just as a point of interest, my Escort diesel had 200,000 on the clock when the symptoms of crankcase pressure began to show. Ford engines aren't 'high mileage' units. I swapped the engine for a secondhand unit.

Fiat engines - I don't know about that. Maybe somebody else can tell you what the life-mileage of your vehicle is.
Likes dubsential liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by glenn2602; 15-06-2017 at 21:40.
glenn2602 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 15-06-2017   #4
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 58
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by glenn2602 View Post
If, by the main seal, you mean the crankshaft seal, yes, you can get an oil leak from there. Usually the oil will drip from the bellhouse/gearbox join .. and blow along the underside of the car as you drive. If you've put a new crankshaft seal in the problem should have been cured.

However, it seems as though you're hinting at another problem?

If the sump is being pressurised that points to an engine problem - broken piston ring or worn engine, though a broken piston ring usually results in a trail of blue smoke when you drive along ..

With an engine that is starting to show signs of age and wear, the upcoming piston compresses both fuel/air mix - and of course exhaust gases - which, in a worn engine can find their way down past the piston and consequently pressurise the sump.

That build up of pressure in the sump will seek a way to get to atmosphere in any way it can - usually removing the oil cap when the engine is running may reveal a 'chuffing' as fumes are escaping in time with the beat of the engine. Removing the dipstick with the engine running may reveal fumes being blown out at varying degrees of pressure.

I once owned an Escort 1.8 diesel. The first signs of a worn engine were the 2 rubber washers underneath the rocker cover nuts being forced outwards - because of the crankcase pressure.

If your crankcase is being pressurised because of a worn engine the oil in the system will be forced to atmosphere wherever it can - seals and gaskets.

I don't own a Fiat with a diesel engine - however, I'm aware that some owners have had problems with oil finding it's way to atmosphere via the injector seals.

The problem here - I believe that the Fiat 1.9 has a precombustion chamber - is that a build up of carbon and goo in the precombustion chambers raises the compression and results in exhaust gas/oily goo being forced to atmosphere past the injector seals.

Whether a build up in the precombustion chamber would cause the crankcase to become pressurised, I don't honestly know.

Just as a point of interest, my Escort diesel had 200,000 on the clock when the symptoms of crankcase pressure began to show. Ford engines aren't 'high mileage' units. I swapped the engine for a secondhand unit.

Fiat engines - I don't know about that. Maybe somebody else can tell you what the life-mileage of your vehicle is.

Thanks for the reply.. Basically I blew third and fourth gear.. Third went first, but third and fourth are on same sync I believe..
Anyway drove with third missing accordingly.. Same when the fourth went.
No oil leaks then and it went like stink...
Engine is still sounds fruity.. No oil lights on..
But to be honest when other box went bottom of bell housing was black and cruddy.. Never dripped oil though or used..
Was gonna change main seal but flywheel bolts were a bitch..
Got a mechanic mate said he get flywheel of in ten minutes.. Just box of again, bastard thing.

To answer the blow by on piston rings no my mate hates diesels an he was bigging mine up
And that guy has a diesel..
I never did crank seal as I mentioned above bolts on flywheel tight as ****..

Anyways thanks for your response pal.

I know the oil loss problem has to be pressurised and it's gotta be that main seal


And I wasn't hinting at another problem just having a silly moment thinking how an engine works lol.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by dubsential; 15-06-2017 at 23:18.
dubsential is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-06-2017   #5
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 58
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by glenn2602 View Post
If, by the main seal, you mean the crankshaft seal, yes, you can get an oil leak from there. Usually the oil will drip from the bellhouse/gearbox join .. and blow along the underside of the car as you drive. If you've put a new crankshaft seal in the problem should have been cured.

However, it seems as though you're hinting at another problem?

If the sump is being pressurised that points to an engine problem - broken piston ring or worn engine, though a broken piston ring usually results in a trail of blue smoke when you drive along ..

With an engine that is starting to show signs of age and wear, the upcoming piston compresses both fuel/air mix - and of course exhaust gases - which, in a worn engine can find their way down past the piston and consequently pressurise the sump.

That build up of pressure in the sump will seek a way to get to atmosphere in any way it can - usually removing the oil cap when the engine is running may reveal a 'chuffing' as fumes are escaping in time with the beat of the engine. Removing the dipstick with the engine running may reveal fumes being blown out at varying degrees of pressure.

I once owned an Escort 1.8 diesel. The first signs of a worn engine were the 2 rubber washers underneath the rocker cover nuts being forced outwards - because of the crankcase pressure.

If your crankcase is being pressurised because of a worn engine the oil in the system will be forced to atmosphere wherever it can - seals and gaskets.

I don't own a Fiat with a diesel engine - however, I'm aware that some owners have had problems with oil finding it's way to atmosphere via the injector seals.

The problem here - I believe that the Fiat 1.9 has a precombustion chamber - is that a build up of carbon and goo in the precombustion chambers raises the compression and results in exhaust gas/oily goo being forced to atmosphere past the injector seals.

Whether a build up in the precombustion chamber would cause the crankcase to become pressurised, I don't honestly know.

Just as a point of interest, my Escort diesel had 200,000 on the clock when the symptoms of crankcase pressure began to show. Ford engines aren't 'high mileage' units. I swapped the engine for a secondhand unit.

Fiat engines - I don't know about that. Maybe somebody else can tell you what the life-mileage of your vehicle is.

Basically what I was meaning fitting a new sump with rtv shouldn't have oil pissing out
Like it's under pressure..
So it's coming from the join between engine and box..
I have just pulled the box across to discover oil on the flywheel..
So it must be the main crankshaft seal...
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

dubsential is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-06-2017   #6
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Ashington, Northumberland
Posts: 248
Thanks: 16
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Oil pressure sump

I agree, it must be the crankshaft oil seal. Just a tip -- if the clutch driven plate is contaminated with oil .. either boil it to remove the oil, or replace it.

The bellhousing - the bit between engine and gearbox is likely to be smeared with oil and dirt.

There's not really any way that gearbox oil can find its way to that area .. so yes, crankshaft oil seal. remove the old one, smear the housing with a bit of sealant and just gently tap the new one into place
Likes dubsential liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

glenn2602 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 26-06-2017   #7
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 58
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by glenn2602 View Post
I agree, it must be the crankshaft oil seal. Just a tip -- if the clutch driven plate is contaminated with oil .. either boil it to remove the oil, or replace it.

The bellhousing - the bit between engine and gearbox is likely to be smeared with oil and dirt.

There's not really any way that gearbox oil can find its way to that area .. so yes, crankshaft oil seal. remove the old one, smear the housing with a bit of sealant and just gently tap the new one into place
Cheers yeah original box was black and cruddy. I suspected it but I think I disturbed it more replacing the sump.
Had flywheel off replaced seal..
And yes oil on back of flywheel.. Didn't make it to clutch.. Two bolts for the sump go into the seal metal housing..

Just trying to get box back on safely what a mission that is it fouls on the subframe tried dropping box side down, I think it must have to be lifted up to miss it.
Pita.

Cheers though glenn
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

dubsential is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) 110F Oil Pump options and low oil pressure woes marcus550 500 (Classic) 28 17-01-2017 22:02
(T) Low oil pressure warning light. Oil pump replacement? Marc Lewis Punto (Mk2/2b) 8 10-01-2016 21:05
(T) Thread size sump plug and oil pressure Fiat 850 Tiller Other Fiats 1 08-08-2015 23:54
(T) Oil pressure warning after sump repairs aversfeld Multipla 4 21-03-2014 10:43
(G) Grounded Selecta Gearbox sump = Leaking CVT oil and new sump needed Most Easterly Pandas Panda (Classic) 49 21-06-2008 14:19