This is a rroope-type question: I just wondered if it's possible to fit Radar Cruise Control to my Abarth (already fitted with 'ordinary' cruise control).

I imagine that the software and most of the wiring might be there... but wondered if there are parts available for the 'upgrade'. I don't have a working 'ePer' so haven't been able to look.

I suppose a related question would be, does anyone's Stilo have the Radar Cruise Control fitted? (It's described in the handbook).

On Top Gear the other day, Jeremy was extolling the virtues of the Mercedes S-Class, and I couldn't help thinking that my Stilo had most of the features (except the Radar Cruise...)

-Alex

Hey Alex

Right, to answer this question, it might be possible but I doubt it. Firstly, you need the first radar in the front bumper (which is now out of production so good luck finding one!), a different front bumper with the radar panel, a different cruise control stick, which no doubt has more wiring needed, the colour TFT screen to display what's going on, a body computer capable of calculating it all (unless it's done in the engine node, will check), a rear radar sensor and new 3rd brake light . . .

Just seems to unfeasible!!!!

rroope said:

....a rear radar sensor and new 3rd brake light . . .

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Rich, I'm intrigued. How do these fit in

Argonought said:

Rich, I'm intrigued. How do these fit in

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You know, I'm sure I saw that a different 3rd brake light was required for the radar cruise control, maybe something to do with checking following cars for braking distances?

Problem is, since the option was deleted a few months after production began, parts information for this has no douobt been deleted.

EDIT: In fact yeah, all information regarding different bumper and radar cap have now gone!

rroope said:

....maybe something to do with checking following cars for braking distances?

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Sounds like a really awesome system - hadn't taken account that it also protects you from cars running into the back of you.

They must have produced some of these, most likely within Italy, I'd have thought.

Imagine getting your hands on one

Argonought said:

Sounds like a really awesome system - hadn't taken account that it also protects you from cars running into the back of you.

They must have produced some of these, most likely within Italy, I'd have thought.

Imagine getting your hands on one

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Its more to do with the car activating brakes to slow car down if something pulls up in front then checking nothing rams you in the rear I'd assume!

I believe the whole system on the Stilo was dropped (internationally) due to radar interference from buildings etc causing the system to malfunction, and of course because it is such a complicated system, FIAT no doubt dropped it.

rroope said:

Its more to do with the car activating brakes to slow car down if something pulls up in front then checking nothing rams you in the rear I'd assume!

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That's kinda what I assumed - still very impressive though!

rroope said:

I believe the whole system on the Stilo was dropped (internationally) due to radar interference from buildings etc causing the system to malfunction, and of course because it is such a complicated system, FIAT no doubt dropped it.

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Would be interesting to hear from any Italian members on this as I'm sure some must have been produced. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work but if so then I'm amazed it got as far as a production item

OK, well, your answer surprises me, based on the fact that wasn't it you that fitted cruise control into a Stilo that didn't have it?

Of course the TFT display is already there (for the current cruise control), and if cars that didn't have the stalk already had the wiring and the programming at the body computer, I thought that cars with the stalk for normal cruise control might have had at least some of the wiring for the radar cruise.

Anyway, if the parts are not available then I guess it's not possible; but are you saying that all those parts are no longer listed on ePer or whatever? I wonder how dealers will fix them...

Like you, I have a bit of a history with 'factory upgrades'; I fitted climate-control air conditioning into my Lancia Thema V6 that didn't have it - and I achieved this without disconnecting the A/C pipes (no discharge/recharge) by carefully working around the engine. There were a large number of wires to make up, plus relays, fan speed controller, and the three temperature sensors to install. I even painted the brown panel silver to sit better in my car's black dashboard. But probably no more complex than your Connect Nav+ install!

Cheers,
-Alex

Argonought said:

That's kinda what I assumed - still very impressive though!

Would be interesting to hear from any Italian members on this as I'm sure some must have been produced. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work but if so then I'm amazed it got as far as a production item

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Do we know if it got to production? I know it's mentioned in the eLEARN pages, and I'm pretty sure it's in the early handbooks . . . maybe reports coming back from dealers caused it to be dropped.

Hey Alex

My thinking was that, because the standard cruise control is quite easy (Engine Node reads speed then adjusts throttle accordingly), it is easier to install that program and have one engine node (i.e. not have one with cruise program, one without).

However, because the radar involves calculating distances, interfacing with the CAN for the dash, radar info and braking system, and no doubt mechanical mods to allow the car to slow itself down, it wouldn't be already there waiting; maybe the front radar sensor is a node itself, then would have the programs there? Then you'd be into the time delay scenario again . . .

The TFT doesn't get used for retrofit Cruise as my Stilo (yes, it was me ) has got OEM non-Factory installed cruise; the cruise control light doesn't come on (however when I fitted the new dash, the engine node must have been sending the "Cruise ON" signal, which the dashboard was picking up as it would say "Cruise Enabled" everytime I turned it on. Got it proxi-realigned, message went!). Also, the radar cruise stalk has another ring to adjust distances, so one assumes more wires; and maybe not going to the engine node at all!!

I expect dealers can't fix the system; since the part went out of production so quickly, I am still presuming it wasn't released at the launch, even though pre-launch books, ePER discs and suchwhat had details.

I'm gonna go hunt out an old ePER now!

Update

Found Compact98 Disc from 2003 D), and it still shows the radar cruise available. The radar sensor has no price, and crossing it over to eLEARN shows product out of production with no replacements available.

I was also correct about the car needing a different front bumper D), with a plug to go in it infront of the radar sensor. Also the different 3rd brake light is there (all option 412="ACTIVE CRUISE CONTROL") but it is only a few £ more; I wonder why??

rroope said:

...and I'm pretty sure it's in the early handbooks . . .

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Yes, it's in mine. I remember whilst reading through the manual, on the day I bought the car, coming to the radar cruise control section, and then going out to the car with great trepidation to see if mine had it fitted. LOL

Interestingly, the manual only mentions detection of vehicles ahead and makes no mention of detecting those behind.

Argonought said:

Interestingly, the manual only mentions detection of vehicles ahead and makes no mention of detecting those behind.

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Thought: since the 3rd brake light is controlled directly from the switch and not from the Body Computer (i.e. it can be described as aCAN (without CAN network )), then maybe there is a 2nd input to allow a brake light feed from the radar cruise control, since it won't be pulling the pedal down and therefore won't depress the switch. Therefore, the other 2 brake lights get their signal to turn on from the CAN line.

That would mean a very small cost increase and would mean that only frontal detection is there. That sounds like a damn good hypothesis

rroope said:

That would mean a very small cost increase and would mean that only frontal detection is there. That sounds like a damn good hypothesis

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I think you're spot on there

The manual goes on to say that whilst the system can slow down the car it can't do a full blown emergency stop so it sounds like it must have some control over the brakes (most likely linked into the ASR/ESP system)

Argonought said:

Yes, it's in mine. I remember whilst reading through the manual, on the day I bought the car, coming to the radar cruise control section, and then going out to the car with great trepidation to see if mine had it fitted. LOL

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PMSL-its in my book and i did exactly the same as you!
I remember feeling totally gutted as it was the only part of the manual i read word for word!

Yes yes,
I remember reading somewhere on an italian roadtest that their test car was fitted with active cruise and they said "it works a treat", I really don't think Fiat had any promblems with the system otherwise it would have left the factory with promblems.
As fiat do, i think they just droped it like they have done with mostley everything else in the car.

The Stilo had technology that was better than most luxury cars at the time of it's luanch, now the opt list looks worse than other cars in it's class(just went on fiat website and Xenons R now done ). The stilo is slowley fading away

But it will be interesting to see if the next Stilo has all the gizmos?? Who knows!!


.

Well, thank you rroope... for looking up those part numbers, though the lack of prices, availability etc. does rather put me off the project, shame

I think your hypothesis with the brake light must be correct, though (on the standard models) I can't understand why the two main brake lights would be CAN-controlled and the high-level light not so...

Since my car has ESP etc. I thought that it would already be able to apply the brakes electronically, which is why I thought perhaps the programming for the Radar Cruise would already be there. The only way I'd ever know would be to try plugging in the stalk, I guess - if I can ever find one.

Hard to believe that a car would come with less features over time, rather than more... At least you guys can actually USE the Sat-Nav...

-Alex

alexGS said:

Well, thank you rroope... for looking up those part numbers, though the lack of prices, availability etc. does rather put me off the project, shame

I think your hypothesis with the brake light must be correct, though (on the standard models) I can't understand why the two main brake lights would be CAN-controlled and the high-level light not so...

Since my car has ESP etc. I thought that it would already be able to apply the brakes electronically, which is why I thought perhaps the programming for the Radar Cruise would already be there. The only way I'd ever know would be to try plugging in the stalk, I guess - if I can ever find one.

Hard to believe that a car would come with less features over time, rather than more... At least you guys can actually USE the Sat-Nav...

-Alex

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I expect the 3rd brake light is non-CAN controlled just in case a problem arises with the Body Computer, so at least one light will work. The others will be CAN controlled so it can check the lights to see if they are working. One of my work colleagues followed me once in my mum's and told me there was a noticable delay between the 3rd and other brake lights; when it got a new Body Computer, the delay almost vanished!

And regards to CN+ . . .