rroope said:

With regards to the alarm "saga", another option would be to buy the Aftermarket kit for the Stilo and instead of using the sensors from the kit on the A-pillars, you could mount them in the OE header unit for an original looking job (that's what I'd do).

Click to expand...

Finally decided to go with your suggestion (had already bought Meta alarm anyway).

Start with 1st item on list (the bonnet switch) and come to a quick halt :bang:

I can't find any place to fit the micro switch and the image on the drawing doesn't seem to match my bonnet catch that well. What do most people do - through the switch away and just hope it takes ages for the thief to get to the battery?

This bring me full circle. Since my Stilo already has the full alarm loom - is it just possible it has a proximity switch embedded somewhere too?

Right, as to the "full alarm wiring"; the roof mounted wiring is standard on all Stilos. Does yours have the siren and node wiring too?

Stilos fitted with alarms have the bonnet switch located in the striker plate. I personally would fit it with a new striker to integrate it, avoid drilling and make it look original (hey, that's just my style!). New one is £30 though, just has a 2pin wiring connector, which you would integrate into the alarm kit you've bought.

Decision is yours!

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Fiat-Punt...074927816QQcategoryZ10370QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

rroope said:

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Fiat-Punt...074927816QQcategoryZ10370QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Click to expand...

Rich, I may be being a bit slow here. Are you suggesting this IS an alarm node?

I've already got a search running for the previous Part No. (for the alarm node) you supplied.

rroope said:

Does yours have the siren and node wiring too?

Click to expand...

Yep. You can see it through the scuttle plate. Intriguingly it looks like it might plug into the META alarm module too

rroope said:

Stilos fitted with alarms have the bonnet switch located in the striker plate. I personally would fit it with a new striker to integrate it, avoid drilling and make it look original (hey, that's just my style!).

Click to expand...

You're not unique - I'm a perfectionist too and basically agree with you although not sure about spending £30 AND changing the bonnet catch (works great as it is).

As I've said before, the problem with the META alarm is that it only provides volumetric protection (OK it protects the doors too but who's ever going to get the doors open on a dead-locked Stilo). I don't know about you but I'd be mad as hell if I got back to my Stilo to find the alarm had gone off AFTER someone had spent 15 minutes trying to jemmy the doors, forced open the bonnet and finally smashed a window . Chances are the cost of getting the motor fixed will be way higher than anything that might have got stolen from it (personally I always take anything really valuable with me).

Nice thing about the factory fit job is that the alarm is likely to go BEFORE you've picked up much more than a few scratches.

I suppose if someone immediately puts a brick through a window then it wont matter which system you have (and if you've left something on display then I guess it wont stop it going either).

That's my problem - if I'm going to fit it properly then I expect it to do a proper job - otherwise there doesn't seem much point bothering.

Ah a man after my own heart . . .

Well with the new bonnet catch it'll protect the bonnet, and it'll detect the boot due to the boot light going on; so there's the perimetric detection for you.

I expect that the aftermarket kit is CAN compatible but won't suffer the issues of being a NODE on the system.

Did you check out that ebay link for the original alarm node??

rroope said:

I expect that the aftermarket kit is CAN compatible but won't suffer the issues of being a NODE on the system.

Click to expand...

I'm sure it is - and here's a really interesting thought.

Is it just possible that the after market META siren module (that's NOT a node) will interface with the factory fit head console I already have?

Interesting, what you say about how the factory fit job has a switch on the bonnet catch. Now if I could just find the 2 pin socket that this plug would plug into.... :idea:

Hmm, interesting thought - again, the lack or eLEARN is getting on my nerves! wonder if the header console itself a node or maybe just a unit that the alarm node checks its functionality? Thinking about information feeds, I'm pretty sure that the header console just transmits data on the CAN (this doesn't imply it's a node if I'm right) so the META unit may be able to interface with the CAN and pick it up? Doubtful though, as the sensors with the META kit will no doubt give raw data feeds.

My thought was that you could get a header console and then integrate the sensors you got in the META kit; although bearing in mind the price of the header console that would be an expensive way of doing things!

I'm going to have to get that scuttle plate off and get to the bottom of this.

The console header connects directly into the CAN line and the META control unit connects down at the fuse box by the driver. I think they duplicate many functions (they're just in different places).

However, the WFS (Wire Free Siren) unit (from the META alarm) does not connect into the CAN system but would seem to be directly controlled via the control module (fitted in internal fuse-box). This would seem quite bizarre as the 4 pin plug I can see under the scuttle looks identical to the 4 pin plug on the META siren unit. Why use the same plug/socket and then wire it differently?

Is it just possible that the siren module on the factory fit version is NOT a node after all and the header unit is in fact the node?

As I say - only one way to find out...........

Hmm, I don't wanna say either way without eLEARN: there is an alarm siren on ebay don't forget!!

rroope said:

there is an alarm siren on ebay don't forget!!

Click to expand...

Yep. It's Part No. 60816161 (not the same as you originally quoted)

The META Siren module (which looks identical) is described as a "Self Powered Coded Wires Free Siren"

It has 4 connections:

1. +12V
2. -0V
3. Bonnet tamper to 0V
4. Control line to alarm module

I can see a problem here. Where does line 4 come from? It can't come from the header unit as that only talks to the CAN network

That part number refers to an intermediary part number for the alarm siren (don't know why it was changed).

Wire Free Siren => Integrated Module.

I think I'm going to have to wait until I get home then examine eLEARN and get clued up on this.

So the wire is definitely there under the scuttle?

rroope said:

So the wire is definitely there under the scuttle?

Click to expand...

I've just been out to check again and there's definitely a plug that looks like it could plug into the WFS.

But get this - only 3 wires are connected - so no chance of it being on the CAN network! It would seem the factory option uses another method to protect the bonnet.

Of course, it's possible this plug is for something completely different in which I've been talking a load of BS (but what else could live in the scuttle area?)

OK. ..........bit of an update.

There were actually two connectors in the scuttle area.

This one

which is the one I could see through the grill on the nearside. It's too small to plug into the siren. It was a bit exposed and getting a rather corroded so I've cleaned it up and put it out of the rain.

The question is what's it for

........and this one

which fits the siren perfectly.

Now for the interesting part.

Switch on and what we get is

1. Rain sensor failure
2. Light sensor failure

It looks like the body computer thinks the siren module is the rain and light sensor node.........but the siren, as you can see, is only connected by three wires

Remove the plug and the body computer is happy again.

Pretty much gave up at this point as I didn't like the idea of the body computer thinking the siren was actually a node (it's the siren from the aftermarket META alarm).

Everything is back together now (siren is now wired with the aftermarket cable set).

Sometimes it pays to read the manual as it's now clear the CAN system doesn't work the way I though it did!

Having gone through eLearn it would seem that although the siren supplied with the META alarm kit is identical to the factory fitted siren in every respect externally (including having an identical wiring socket) it's actually wired quite differently internally.

This is the difference:

META Siren

1. +12V
2. -0V
3. Bonnet tamper to 0V
4. Control line to alarm module

Factory Siren

1. +12V
2. to body computer and then onto alarm module in header console
3. -0V
4. NC

I've decided to try it once more with a factory fit siren.

The other good news is the discovery of the wiring for the bonnet switch which is a 2-pin plug just behind the left light cluster.

Well! I've now fitted the proper factory fit siren and.....

No warnings from body computer
No flashing mileage
.....and NO alarm! :bang:

To be fair this is pretty much what Fiat predicted although nobody seemed able to say exactly what would happen if you plugged all the bits together.

Even now I don't know why is doesn't work although I think 3 reasons can be considered:

1. Stilo's fitted with factory fit alarms have a special body computer fitted which includes an alarm module.
   
2. All body computers are the same but during final production the firmware of the body computer is updated to support the fitted alarm.
   
3. All body computers can support an alarm (subject to all wiring and alarm components being in place) but need to be initialized by Examiner.

I'm maybe clutching at straws but I'm going to leave everything wired as it is until the Stilo needs another session with Examiner.

Hey Argonaught

Number 2 is the answer I got from FIAT; the only different version of an actual HARDWARE body computer is for the Easy-Go option that we don't get in the UK.

To be honest, if you've got no flashing mileage issues, I'd say it wasn't talking on the CAN line. The alarm (I would have thought) would have a permanent +12V feed so should always show it's presence on the CAN.

However, another theory is that the alarm siren is just that; a siren. The actual "node" could be in the header unit; is this attached??

Hi Rich - wondered where you’d got to

I think if it is option 2 then I'm stumped as I don't think examiner can carry out a firmware update of the body computer itself.

Everything is wired except for the bonnet switch. Was hoping for an 'Alarm Fault' or 'Bonnet Open' message but the body computer acts like the alarm doesn't exist and reports nothing at all.

I feel certain the siren is nothing more than that - just a self-powered siren (fitted the one from eBay) with pin 2 going off to pin 25 of the body computer and then onto the header unit (the true alarm module).

What's so very frustrating is that the alarm is all wired up - and I'm sure it would work - but will do nothing until the body computer activates it. :bang:

Hey - yeah sorry, had a lot on my plate to deal with recently

It's all a bit strange; it could be that the header and siren are not active nodes; i.e. when an alarm is fitted, the body computer is programmed to recognise faults on the CAN and display; it could be that you're header node is sending out a fault code but the body computer doesn't recognise it, hence is thinking it's junk info on the network and not displaying it. Funny though; the mileage should flash. Unless the body computer is actively asking for faults with the alarm node? Strange.

If the examiner can't talk to it one could presume a wiring issue; are you sure that the 4-pin wire coming out of the header is talking to the body computer? I know that the CN+ microphone lead isn't physically connected to anything and terminates at a junction box behind the dash.

I think I might be checking ePER out tonight

Yep, pretty certain the wiring is good (in the sense that it IS at least connected).

All the night lights operate on the switches plus the LEDS function normally

Also (see older post) I got an error message when I connected the wrong siren

Spoke to local agents about this and they say Examiner should provide an option to ENABLE/DISABLE the alarm and also a whole stack of stuff for setting sensitivity of anti-jack system and so on. I told them to look for an alarm menu on mine but they couldn't find one. Their opinion was that my body computer could therefore NOT support an alarm. The thing is - like so much about the Stilo - you got the impression that they weren't really that certain!

Bye the way, I asked them to check for an ECU update, which they found and did (always best to ask for these things I find)