Technical Rear brakes..adjustment and replacement

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Technical Rear brakes..adjustment and replacement

coupedummy

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Hi guys,

Stilo had been a rock so far for work but some work needed for mot. Done 5k since I bought her.
I now have a low pitch squeel when turning coming from rear brakes.
Quick inspection show one nice clean disc and The other full of corrosion.

Is the rear brake guide the same for both hatch and multiwagon for adjustment?
Should I be able to do this with just the rear end of the car in the air?

I plan to remove the calipers first and try winding them back, if I have a seized caliper at least I know which way to go with it.
Is there any other advice on doing this job?

Thanks

Reuben
 
Morning Reuben,


Sounds like you have a seized caliper there then. Check both sides of the disc as it could be sized in one of two different ways.

If the slider pins have stuck (not very common) then the brake will apply force to the inside of the disc via the piston but it won't move the caliper to pinch the disc between the two pads.

More likely is the piston has seized in the caliper. You will want to check inside brake pad if that is the case, as depending on the point it's seized it may have worn the inside pad right down.

To inspect is easy. Depending on severity of the situation you may get away with just freeing it off and carrying on, or you might need a rebuild (new caliper easier at this point).

Remember to leave the car in gear when working on rear calipers as you will need to have the handbrake OFF.

You will need a caliper rewind tool to wind the piston in, as the handbrake is on the rear caliper. Certainly on my car (54 plate Abarth) the passenger side is a reverse threaded piston, so don't try and wind it the wrong way or you'll ruin it.

You should be able to wind the caliper back with it off the car / in your hand. Just take the brake fuild cap off under the bonnet. Leave the cap sat covering the reservoir to stop dirt and moisture ingress.

If it takes any more torque than you can manage in your hands then consider whether it's sticking or seized and requires further attention.

The passenger side caliper which is reverse threaded tends to be the caliper that has issues, people try and wind it the wrong way and damage the threads, so it jams up easier.

If it does require rebuild it's probably easier to source a new or second hand caliper. I got a second hand good working caliper for my car from a breakers for about £15 i think, which isn't much more than a rebuild kit and far less complicated.
 
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Thanks both. Very helpful.
Going to do the lot I reckon. Front brakes need full disc and pads.
Rears I'm ordering discs,pads and cables. Then calipers if required.

Would like to do all this on the drive if I can. Have axel stands, jacks etc so hopefully get this sorted myself. Have a garage so will pull the front nose and rear in so can work away from the elements.
 
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Axel stands... I had some but didn't use them, didn't feel safe on the rear so I used two trolley jacks and bricks... don't move the car whilst doing the brakes as you will have to use the brakes to stop the car, just do the rears first make sure there bled and adjusted correctly then do the fronts. When bleeding (if you need too) start with the calliper furthest away from the reservoir (that would be drivers side rear on a right hand drive stilo).
 
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Axel stands... I had some but didn't use them, didn't feel safe on the rear so I used two trolley jacks and bricks... don't move the car whilst doing the brakes as you will have to use the brakes to stop the car, just do the rears first make sure there bled and adjusted correctly then do the fronts. When bleeding (if you need too) start with the calliper furthest away from the reservoir (that would be drivers side rear on a right hand drive stilo).

You could spark quite the debate there! A good set of axle stands will be more than up for the job. I've got a set of 2 tonne stands that I sit the front of my V8 diesel on without worry.

Shouldn't be any trouble holding the rear up either, the front is where all the weight is with the motor, so back end shouldn't be a problem for axle stands at all.

In theory you should never rely on the jack to support the car. Bricks are a bit bodge as can crumble and collapse. Hydraulic jacks can leak and drop on you, likewise the scissor windy type jacks you get in car tool kits can bend and collapse.

A number of people die every year being crushed by cars falling on them due to failed jacks.

I've had a couple go on me over the years. Had a hydraulic one leak out passed it's seal and fall on me and had a scissor jack twist and the car drop forwards on me. Had axle stands in place which caught the car on both occasions.
 
I appreciate it but will chuck lots of stuff under the car. Certainly be two axel stands, two jacks and likely the wheels thrown under the car just in case...
Never can be too safe.
 
I totally agree, however on the rear of the stilo I couldn't find anywhere safe enough to place the axel stands.

If you jack the car up using the rear jacking point (under the rear passenger seat, then you can put an axle stand under the swing arm. The Stilo has a handy kink in the swing arm, right next to the pivot.

Once I've lowered the car onto an axle stand I raise the jack so that it's just starting to take some of the weight. That way, the whole weight is neither on the stand or the jack... but the stand gets most of the weight, the jack is just there so I can quickly jack the beast up if it moves at all.

I've never had any incidents with a stand, but a car did try to escape off the jack once (that time I had no stands since the wheels were on and I was not lying underneath the car).

For your brake problem... the easiest/best option is a new refurbished caliper.

Clean up the pins up with WD40 and if necessary some emery paper. Poke a long screwdriver and spray some WD40 into the holes to flush out any old/hardened grease.. then using a cloth screwed up into a taper, clean it out (drying out the WD40).

The new calipers will come with a sachet of brake grease which is enough for both pins. They should slide in an out without sticking or jamming. Fit the new caliper with new pads (and ideally discs, and if necessary cables) and the beast is as good as new.


Ralf S.

Ralf S.
 
Thanks for advice guys.

Just collating all the parts. Mot is due towards end of the month.
Think im just gonna go to town on the brakes as the rears are abit crap anyhow.
Ive got new front discs and pads(highlighted on last mot), rear pads ,one caliper so far. Will pick up passenger rear caliper ,discs and handbrake cable and hopefully all shall be good for some time to come.

Parts seem relatively cheap for the stilo which is handy.

Garage may aswell do all the rears on the ramp i think. They will get it done alot quicker than i can.
 
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Provided none of the calipers are seized and giving you grief, which if replacing they won't... it's by no means a difficult job. Just pinch the brake like with a pair of grips before you disconnect the old calipers. Something like an easy bleed brake brake kit will make bleeding a doddle.

I do understand if you dont want to sit outside in the wind and rain fart arsing around with brakes though.... haha
 
Everything has been order bar the handbrake cables which i would rather be done on a ramp to be honest.
I will have a go at the rest i think especially as you say im having new caliper so most of the issues should not be there.
Only other thing i have ordered or considered is slider pins. I cant afford to have the car off the road so may see if i can locate some carriers locally and cheaply for refurb.If im having new calipers i may aswell have decent carriers to go with them.
 
Everything has been order bar the handbrake cables which i would rather be done on a ramp to be honest.
I will have a go at the rest i think especially as you say im having new caliper so most of the issues should not be there.
Only other thing i have ordered or considered is slider pins. I cant afford to have the car off the road so may see if i can locate some carriers locally and cheaply for refurb.If im having new calipers i may aswell have decent carriers to go with them.

Mate, in all my years I've never had to replace a set of slider pins. A tin of brake cleaner spray and some emery cloth, wire wool, fine wet and dry, something along those lines just to remove any deposits on the pin and it'll be right as rain. A clean is typically all that's required and they'll be good to go.
 
Aye! Caliper pins can wear and make the brakes clonk.. but in reality they never need replacing. Just clean/de-rust both the pins and the holes (old grease tends to turn crusty) so that the pins move freely.. then re-fit them.

One of the pins (unless I'm thinking about the front caliper) has a rubber sleeve on it which sits in a recess. It's to stop the pin clonking. Don't use de-greaser on it (e.g. Gunk) since that can attack the rubber and make it expand. Use WD40 or another mild solvent.


Ralf S.
 
Hi guys,

Had a go at the rear brakes today.
My finding are the calipers are in perfect order but found pads to be trapped in position. The carrier sliders are not seized either which is great!
The pad guides were corroded and really struggled to get the pads out of position.
I could put change the discs as the one carrier has got a rounded bolt head.
Very little lipping to the original discs so no major concerns until I get a suitable removal socket.
Pads were swapped netherless. On one side I have to destroy the pad guides just to get them out.
Out to euro car parts to get replacements and up an away.

Put car back together and then found on brake to be binding. Looking back at it I'm am positive it's a handbrake cable issue. The calipers wound back with ease and push back out fine on push of pedal.
I'm picking up one tommorow and see if I can get it swapped and tested again?

Has anyone had the same issues?
 
Had a further look today and hopefully sorted now.
I jacked the car into the air with it in gear and handbrake released.
I attempted to rotate the rear wheels and found the driver side pretty much locked on and passenger difficult to rotate.
I removed the handbrake cable from the calipers and loosened from the retaining bolt from the center console. Handbrake cable slides fine and operates on calipers fine. With handbrake disconnect I still couldn't rotate the wheels.
On digging further after removing callipers yet again I found the wheels to rotate fine.
The calipers seemed a really tight fit upon refit and yet again the wheel seems to lock as if the pad thickness was too thick and solid upon refit.
Upon removing the anti-squeal shims from the pads I found the wheels to rotate adequately and hand brake operate fine.
Refitted and all seems great. No hand brake cable required either.

Bit long winded but if helps someone I hope it is useful.
 
If you're leaving bits off just to make the brakes work, then something still isn't right.

If the pads are the correct type...

... and they move freely in the carrier (with the anti-squeal shims in place)...

... and the caliper pins move freely in and out...

... and the caliper piston is wound in fully (or at least far enough for the pads to fit loosely on the disc)

Then the discs shouldn't bind when you fit them.

If any of these four must-haves isn't there for you, you need to work out why not and resolve it. Most of it (apart from "the wrong pads") will just be sticky/seize so should be fairly simple to sort out.


Ralf S.
 
thanks for that ralf,

Pads move freely in carrier with and without shims

Sliding pins are free

Pistons are free and wind back fully.

Only remaining item is the pads themselves.

I bought the pads from gsf.
They have two types listed at 16.6mm thick and 16.3mm thick.
Eurocar parts show their pads are 15.5mm thickness from new. I reckon it's the pads that are the issue.

I may pick up some eurocarpart ones tommorow.

I wonder what the one pad thickness is?
 
thanks for that ralf,

Pads move freely in carrier with and without shims

Sliding pins are free

Pistons are free and wind back fully.

Only remaining item is the pads themselves.

I bought the pads from gsf.
They have two types listed at 16.6mm thick and 16.3mm thick.
Eurocar parts show their pads are 15.5mm thickness from new. I reckon it's the pads that are the issue.

I may pick up some eurocarpart ones tommorow.

I wonder what the one pad thickness is?

GSF are expensive compared to ECP and they tend to specialise in german, swedish and french however, most cars now a days share parts so they can offer us parts for our fiats based on cross reference... not always a 100% match tho im afraid.

Go with ECP or a local motor factors and go by part numbers, no cross references from other models - especially when talking pads etc, coils n stuff for electrics are a bit of a better match and get you good discounts but on brakes - no no... been in your situation in my nissan days.
 
The pads do seem to "should be" 15.5mm.

If it's not too dear compared to ECP try Brembo pads. I've fitted some to a Megane front and rear and to my old beast and they're the only pads I've ever fitted that are a proper fit in the caliper.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-BREMB...392418?hash=item3acacad062:g:unYAAOSwaB5XvJh5

Also, if the pads have a pimple on the back, it's supposed to line up into one of the indents on the caliper piston.

I can't remember the Stilo one.. but my 145 has a kind of "Iron Cross" arrangement on the piston. The piston has to be rotated so it says "X" rather than "+".. The pimple on the pad then slides into the crook of the X. If you try to do it with the piston in the "+" position, the pimple prevents the pad going in straight and that might be the jamming.


Ralf S.
 
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