Hi guys,

Read into this many moons ago with our first jtd. Have they stood the test of time? I know the potential issues, clutch etc
I am interested in both potentially better fuel economy and some raised power.

There are many new boxes from Germany around £40-£50 mark. Anyone's used one?

Hopefully will be blanking egr aswell this weekend.

Here's one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PERFORMAN...083050?hash=item2a61999aea:g:DC0AAOSweW5VXKPp

Thanks guys.

fake

I would say helpful but not really I think? The cheaper boxes possibly are crap for sure but historically I have read here/Alfa owners of increases in power and economy with plug in boxes?

Is no-one using one now? Many moved on to remaps?

What's it do and how's it work then?


Ralf S.

Fair enough, more fuel burnt for sure.

Still not one person using a box anymore and how they getting on long term?
Lots and lots of thread over the years, maybe owners have just moved on I suppose.

I researched for the best part of 6 months, before I went for the box I finally opted for (its now in the classifieds section). I got it for my 1.9 JTD Dynamic, and it made fantastic improvements accross the board. The only reason I removed it was because I sold the car on and got the Schummy. After all the research, I knew I had to go for UK made and no expense spared, top of the range, because there is a world of cheap crap boxes out there. I liked the fact that I was able to fit myself within minutes, detach it when I wanted or needed, mot etc, and when I did, it simply returned to factory spec automatically. If I could have got another one for the Schummy I would, there wasn't an option then, but I have seen the same firm 'bluespark' are doing petrol units now

Ralf S. said:

What's it do and how's it work then?


Ralf S.

Click to expand...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_tuning

I've seen them used but never used one myself. They're generally fairly crude devices. I have to admit they do offer some gains in power but I wouldn't go as far as to call it improvement. They typically made outlandish and unrealistic claims of improvement that were never truly revealed in the real world. Remember the flashy websites and ebay adds full of shiny cars and half naked women sprouting claims of "up to" 20, 30% gains in power and economy. Realistically you'd never get close to that.

People grow wise quite quickly to that kind of propaganda and quickly came to distrust them as a result, even though there were some products out there much better than others.

The world moved on since then and the remapping industry has grown exponentially since as the eco and diesel market boomed in the UK and people quickly realised there were good gains in power and economy available on diesel and turbo petrol vehicles. The remapping world always seemed to be better at delivering on performance promises and it was more accepted that you'd want rolling road / dyno figures for your remap - so people could quantify what they were getting for their money. Of course with the market being flooded with new competition remapping at the same time become a lot cheaper.

I remember back in the day you'd expect to pay £500-£600 for a dyno remapping session. These days I know I can get a 2wd remap and dyno locally for around £150. So people simply go with the remap as it'll likely deliver better proven gains.

schummy027 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_tuning

Click to expand...

These add on boxes are NOT chip tuning. They just overfuel the engine. Chip tuning was how remapping was done before ECUs had re-programmable memory.
If you must do it get a remap.


Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

These add on boxes are NOT chip tuning. They just overfuel the engine. Chip tuning was how remapping was done before ECUs had re-programmable memory.
If you must do it get a remap.


Robert G8RPI.

Click to expand...

This^^^ I can't really add anything else.

Thanks for that guys. Remap Certainly seems the way to go. Will look into it.

There is some good tuning boxes but at £40 - £60 don't bother.

Expect to pay about £150 for a decent quality tuning box.
There is a company on here that trades them and there is some very good reviews, proof and feedback.

Go hunting in 500, Bravo and many other forums.

dtimmins1985 said:

There is some good tuning boxes but at £40 - £60 don't bother.

Expect to pay about £150 for a decent quality tuning box.
There is a company on here that trades them and there is some very good reviews, proof and feedback.

Go hunting in 500, Bravo and many other forums.

Click to expand...

Was waiting for someone else to back up my advice and experience.....pretty much duplicated what I said ;0)

schummy027 said:

Was waiting for someone else to back up my advice and experience.....pretty much duplicated what I said ;0)

Click to expand...

Sorry but that unit is NOT chip tuning. The basic blue spark just alters the signal from the fuel rail pressure sensor so that the ECU thinks the pressure is low and increases it. You can tell this from the connection diagram. This puts stress on the pump injectors and pipework. and upset the mixture management and fuel consumption calculations. The correct way to increase fuelling is to open the injectors for longer, this is what a good re-map will do. The boost increaser will do a similar thing to the boost pressure signal, presumably with no co-ordination. Paying a higher price does not change how these things basically work (you might get a microprocessor that has more than one setting or at most monitor RPM and turn the pressure down at low rpm), all it can do is increase the fuel pressure.
For the money you could have got a generic re-map or possibly even a custom one.


Robert G8RPI.

Sorry but I've used both chip, on the JTD, and map on the Schumacher, and they were equally matched in performance, so I disagree with your firm opinion that all chips are basically crap because they are not, they are popular, and they do work. Just like low rate cheap chips, there are equally just as many low rate and cheap mapping services out there, so you do get what you pay for, but there is a choice!

schummy027 said:

Sorry but I've used both chip, on the JTD, and map on the Schumacher, and they were equally matched in performance, so I disagree with your firm opinion that all chips are basically crap because they are not, they are popular, and they do work. Just like low rate cheap chips, there are equally just as many low rate and cheap mapping services out there, so you do get what you pay for, but there is a choice!

Click to expand...

Hi,
First define what you mean by "chip" tuning.
To me "chip" tuning is were the ECU is opened up and a new memory IC (chip) is fitted. This alters the progamming or map of the ECU. It is just a physical form of introducing a new map. It is not common now because ECUs have re-writable memory that allows the map to be changed without opening the ECU. What you (and the OP) are describing is "box" tuning where a module or other component is fitted between a sensor and the ECU. The box alters the signal so the ECU thinks the fuel pressure, boost pressure, mass airflow or whatever is different to what it actually is. No matter what the quality or how much you pay, altering the signals from sensors is never going to be as effective as changing the actual map and ECU settings. Ideally you want a custom map set-up for your car but this takes time on proper rolling road.
You paid nearly £300 for a box, but have no independent verifiable evidence that it does what it says. The Bluespark pro boxes are slightly better than most as they do (supposedly) monitor the RPM so presumably they don't overfuel at idle and may even have some finer control. It's still not the right way to do it though and a lot of money for a loom, PIC or Atmel microprocessor and an extruded alloy box. A decent re-map is better in all respects.

Robert G8RPI.

Hi

I am defining box/s as chip/ chips which is the question that started the thread.

I fitted and used the Bluespark tuning box/ chip on the 1.9 JTD 115 Dynamic, and it worked. It was soon after confirmed in a rolling road power run, that it was doing exactly what it claimed, power run was as would be expected following a full remapp, not my words, the dyno tech's! As far as I am concerned great bits of kit that work. I was able to make better use of the various adjustment settings on the dyno run, in order to maximise torque and throttle response, as I originally had it on fuel efficiency over power setting, which worked, but I wanted more power!

With the Schumacher, I went for a full K&N intake system and filter, set up on full dyno rolling road, along with a full ecu remapp.

So, I have done both and I can honestly say that the difference between the chip (BOX) and the full on, all singing all dancing rolling road remapp was minimal and I for one would defo fit another bluespark chip to a jtd.

schummy027 said:

Hi

I am defining box/s as chip/ chips which is the question that started the thread.

I fitted and used the Bluespark tuning box/ chip on the 1.9 JTD 115 Dynamic, and it worked. It was soon after confirmed in a rolling road power run, that it was doing exactly what it claimed, power run was as would be expected following a full remapp, not my words, the dyno tech's! As far as I am concerned great bits of kit that work. I was able to make better use of the various adjustment settings on the dyno run, in order to maximise torque and throttle response, as I originally had it on fuel efficiency over power setting, which worked, but I wanted more power!

With the Schumacher, I went for a full K&N intake system and filter, set up on full dyno rolling road, along with a full ecu remapp.

So, I have done both and I can honestly say that the difference between the chip (BOX) and the full on, all singing all dancing rolling road remapp was minimal and I for one would defo fit another bluespark chip to a jtd.

Click to expand...

OK,
1/ The OP never mentioned chips, just boxes. I'll say it again, a "box" is not "chip tuning"
2/ Just because a box produces more power, does not mean it is correct or the best solution. Increased fuel pressure and other issues can cause engine damage.
3/ So you are comparing a box on a 1.9 JTD to a remap on a performance petrol engine car with intake modifications to decide that boxes are just as good? This does nothing for the credibility of your argument. There would have been little gain to be had with the Schumacher whereas any diesel will give more power if you pour more fuel and air into it.


So you paid nearly £300 for a box but still set it up on a rolling road, A remap would have been cheaper and easier


Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

OK,
1/ The OP never mentioned chips, just boxes. I'll say it again, a "box" is not "chip tuning"
2/ Just because a box produces more power, does not mean it is correct or the best solution. Increased fuel pressure and other issues can cause engine damage.
3/ So you are comparing a box on a 1.9 JTD to a remap on a performance petrol engine car with intake modifications to decide that boxes are just as good? This does nothing for the credibility of your argument. There would have been little gain to be had with the Schumacher whereas any diesel will give more power if you pour more fuel and air into it.


So you paid nearly £300 for a box but still set it up on a rolling road, A remap would have been cheaper and easier

Robert G8RPI.

Click to expand...

1/ I didn't set anything up on the rolling road, it was a 'power run'. I simply changed to another setting on the Not Chip Tuning BOX, and then simply confirmed the difference on the 'power run'.

2/ There was plenty of good gain on remapping the Schumacher.

3/ Please don't ask me to define 'good gain' on the Schumacher, because I really can't be assed, best to agree to disagree on this particular subject.

coupedummy said:

Thanks for that guys. Remap Certainly seems the way to go. Will look into it.

Click to expand...

Seems the OP has already made his choice, so I think this thread has run its course now
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THREAD CLOSED