Afternoon folks,

Started to notice that my engine is quite noisy when cold.
She had a full service about 5k ago (last november), the engine sounded a little ropey back then but when its warmed up - sounds fine and purrs like a kitten on catnip!

Its worrying me now, its gradually getting worse, when i serviced it last year - it helped a bit, did an engine flush and replaced all the filters, plugs and oil, then it had a new sump fitted in July, had a new gearbox and clutch fitted and the garage damaged the sump so that was replaced along with an oil change and filter change again - it was nice and ran quiet but like i said - its getting noisy again when cold.

If i start it from cold (after leaving work) or getting ready to set off to work - it idles at around 1200rpm until the engines warmed up or until i've driven it for a minute or so.

Also, when under load (say shifting from 1st to 2nd at slow speed then putting your foot down a little) you can hear a jingley noise (rattly sqeeks) ive heard cars like this before and its usually been the bottom end of the engine and usualy the sound doesnt go away when warm - however, on the stilo - it makes this noise until the engine is at least half way to normal temprature... id try record it but would be tricky with the wind noise etc.

Anyone else come across this and know what it is?

There is also another annoyance - sometimes at the lights or when waiting in traffic - you can feel it idling a little bit lumpy, not always - just sometimes, imagine the radiotor fan kicking in and it feels a bit ruff - like that but without the radiator fan kicking in...

Should i be worried?

Also, last thing - the aerial mounting plate (the black thing on the roof) mines been damaged - cant fit a new mast in it, so needs replacing, fiat said £38 plus vat and said it is a complete unit, base plate, cable and mast - i need a part number just for the plate and mast - ive read the cable can be disconnected and used on a new base plate... is this correct? can anyone help

Sorry its long winded... hope someone can help.

What engine

corcai said:

What engine

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+1

And what viscosity engine oil are you using. Cloud be noise from the hydraulic tappets if you're not using the correct grade...

Try the 'ePER' tab above for the part number of your aerial.

corcai said:

What engine

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Yellow Peril said:

+1

And what viscosity engine oil are you using. Cloud be noise from the hydraulic tappets if you're not using the correct grade...

Try the 'ePER' tab above for the part number of your aerial.

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Sorry about that, its a 1.2 16v active.
Using correct oil as per the owners book - 10 40 grade millers oil.

Thanks for the ePER info - ill go check that now.

dtimmins1985 said:

Sorry about that, its a 1.2 16v active.
Using correct oil as per the owners book - 10 40 grade millers oil.

Thanks for the ePER info - ill go check that now.

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Struggled with the ePER - found what looks to be the part but theres lots of part numbers and only 3 of them (of about 6 or 7) have prices, looks like its around £36 and one was listed for £150 odd! - time to start hunting scrap yards i think.

Whats your vin number?

corcai said:

Whats your vin number?

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Sorry for the late reply.
ZFA19200000268879

Hope that helps.

If its a plain old aerial not the satnav amplified variety than I think this one will match
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PUNT...410832?hash=item2ca33045d0:g:eXoAAOSwo0JWG38t

Regarding the noise have a listen to a few youtube videos of piston slap.

corcai said:

If its a plain old aerial not the satnav amplified variety than I think this one will match
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PUNT...410832?hash=item2ca33045d0:g:eXoAAOSwo0JWG38t

Regarding the noise have a listen to a few youtube videos of piston slap.

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Excellent - thank you for that, looks like it will do the job, the base is a little shorter but looks about right, and its a standard aerial - no sat nav or anything.

Also, the noise i hear is not piston slap, its like a jingle under load, doesnt do it if your stationary revving the engine, under load only and its only under load at low revs - it stops when the engine revs go over about 1800 / 2000 rpm.
It more a sqeaky jingle like a cold diesel - reminds me of the old ford orion 1.8 diesel engine.

Ill try record the noise when i take the kids to the park today.

If its pinking it could simply be the plugs easy to check, could also be timing related e.g. loose timing tensioner or stretched belt crank pulley not perfectly aligned etc. Worth checking heatshields and exhaust bracket too.

corcai said:

If its pinking it could simply be the plugs easy to check, could also be timing related e.g. loose timing tensioner or stretched belt crank pulley not perfectly aligned etc. Worth checking heatshields and exhaust bracket too.

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Done some more checks - its going to be difficult to record the noise, might have to try position a cheap mobile phone under the bonnet and record the sound as putting one outside the car is no go with wind noise...

Checked the exhaust, everything is fine - had a new manicat fitted two months ago, everythings nipped up tight and thats not the issue, the issue was there before that and strangley goes away once the engine temp needle reaches near half way.

Its definatley not pinking either - im thinking it might be the tensioner or something timing related as it does idle a little rougher than you'd expect - once its warmed up - do you think its worth me getting the timing belt kit and getting it all swapped? - im unsure if the belt was done prior to me buying it at 79k and its now on 87k.

After looking at some more youtube videos - id say it might be pinking - that noise sounds similar, like a rattly / squeaky chain.

If this is the case, should it not do it all the time? as mine stops once warm.
Also, what could be causing this? - getting worried now as if its this, it could be doing all sorts of damage to the engine when its cold and squeaking (pinking).

dtimmins1985 said:

After looking at some more youtube videos - id say it might be pinking - that noise sounds similar, like a rattly / squeaky chain.

If this is the case, should it not do it all the time? as mine stops once warm.
Also, what could be causing this? - getting worried now as if its this, it could be doing all sorts of damage to the engine when its cold and squeaking (pinking).

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ECUs advance the timing when cold. Knock sensor should take care of pinking really though worth checking if its secuyrely fastened and cleaning the contacts. If temp sensor was reporting very cold temperature could be an issue. Is your temperature gauge erratic do you have multiecuscan or anything to check the reported temperature.

With idle oddities and poor running I would check vacuum hoses, vapour canister, breather hoses, intake manifold for leaks, clean throttle body, relearn throttle, with the pinking remove the plugs and check gap, check for fouling, erosion, wrong colour deposits.

corcai said:

ECUs advance the timing when cold. Knock sensor should take care of pinking really though worth checking if its secuyrely fastened and cleaning the contacts. If temp sensor was reporting very cold temperature could be an issue. Is your temperature gauge erratic do you have multiecuscan or anything to check the reported temperature.

With idle oddities and poor running I would check vacuum hoses, vapour canister, breather hoses, intake manifold for leaks, clean throttle body, relearn throttle, with the pinking remove the plugs and check gap, check for fouling, erosion, wrong colour deposits.

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Ok so i've made a list of things to check at the weekend (if time allows).

1) Knock sensor
2) Plugs
3) MAF sensor & Breather hoses etc.
4) Clean TB and check air intake manifold.

Also, after reading some articles online - some people have said try up the octane of your fuel as this could be a factor, so this morning - she had just about ran empty and I filled her up with £50 of Super Unleaded, the garage is about a mile away from my house, engine was still showing cold when i arrived at the garage was still jingling upto about 2k rpm.

Once filled up, three qauters of a tank of super unleaded, started it up - the jingle was alot quieter than on the way to the garage, idling was also much smoother, this has also made me think i should check the fuel filter and fuel pump along with injectors - something i need to look into.

Whats your thoughts?

dtimmins1985 said:

Ok so i've made a list of things to check at the weekend (if time allows).

1) Knock sensor
2) Plugs
3) MAF sensor & Breather hoses etc.
4) Clean TB and check air intake manifold.

Also, after reading some articles online - some people have said try up the octane of your fuel as this could be a factor, so this morning - she had just about ran empty and I filled her up with £50 of Super Unleaded, the garage is about a mile away from my house, engine was still showing cold when i arrived at the garage was still jingling upto about 2k rpm.

Once filled up, three qauters of a tank of super unleaded, started it up - the jingle was alot quieter than on the way to the garage, idling was also much smoother, this has also made me think i should check the fuel filter and fuel pump along with injectors - something i need to look into.

Whats your thoughts?

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The minimum octane rating uk and ireland is 95 and shouldn't cause pinking unless its seriously stale so while higher octane may help reduce the noise it shouldn't be there in the first place. In the US its as low as 89 if my sister put 89 in her honda it sounds likes its going to explode.

corcai said:

The minimum octane rating uk and ireland is 95 and shouldn't cause pinking unless its seriously stale so while higher octane may help reduce the noise it shouldn't be there in the first place. In the US its as low as 89 if my sister put 89 in her honda it sounds likes its going to explode.

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Yea i understand that, bit strange that the honda sounds different on that octane of fuel! - friend of mine ran prelude 2.2 on Optimax a few years back and it loved it.

Anyhow, bit more worried this morning - cold start at 7:30 and it was pinking most of the way to work, it stops over 2k rpm, but was very very noticeable under that rpm, also noticed that the engine reached the middle of the temp gauge then when going downhill on the motorway for about 2mins - at 70ish in 6th gear - the temp dropped below a quater of the gauge and then rose slightly when at the lights - its not erratic, but does move and have noticed that it doesnt sit in the middle and stay there like it used to, however - the weather is getting colder so this could be a factor... will monitor this.

Im thinking of looking at the knock sensor and engine temp sensor this weekend, also - about 6 months ago - i was fiddling in the engine bay and later that afternoon - engine temp sensor fault was on the screen of the dash and it went into limp mode, i pulled over - re-started the engine a couple of times and it went away and has never come back... maybe it has an issue - will check this at the weekend.

Thankyou for the input so far.

Try running it on high octane for a while as it might give it a clean. My Landrover is happy using 91 but can start 'running on'. A tank of 98 and it is running smooth again.
If your car has not had a new timing belt you should replace due to it's age. If the timing belt drives water pump then replace that too. Not familiar with 1.2 engine.

Maigretnz said:

Try running it on high octane for a while as it might give it a clean. My Landrover is happy using 91 but can start 'running on'. A tank of 98 and it is running smooth again.
If your car has not had a new timing belt you should replace due to it's age. If the timing belt drives water pump then replace that too. Not familiar with 1.2 engine.

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Timing belt drives the water pump, and the water pumps are known to break up. Recommended change interval was revised to just 3 years 36k.

By the by OP if you are getting the belt done I got the full gates kit very cheap from Germany, water pump looks like metelli, tensioner litens and gates belt.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/151819983158

Maigretnz said:

Try running it on high octane for a while as it might give it a clean. My Landrover is happy using 91 but can start 'running on'. A tank of 98 and it is running smooth again.
If your car has not had a new timing belt you should replace due to it's age. If the timing belt drives water pump then replace that too. Not familiar with 1.2 engine.

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Yea - i thought as much, done it with a few cars i've had in the past - does help for a while.

Hey in regards to the Landy - would really love a TD5 but the expense! woah.

corcai said:

Timing belt drives the water pump, and the water pumps are known to break up. Recommended change interval was revised to just 3 years 36k.

By the by OP if you are getting the belt done I got the full gates kit very cheap from Germany, water pump looks like metelli, tensioner litens and gates belt.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/151819983158

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Thank you for that - will be purchasing this very soon, it's a bargain at that price and the labour for this work isn't too expensive - can get it fitted for less than £200 - which is cheaper than my last car!!