well Just to update had it in the garage today and they have diagnosed that the turbo has gone so need replacing. so now on the hunt for another turbo

Have they said anymore detail than that?
Turbo is fairly simple device with more complex things controlling it.
For example vnt vanes seized
Actuator leaking or seized
Vnt boost solenoid or pipework leaking
Actual vac pump on engine not making vac
Turbo bearing worn and fins touching housing(usually noisy whine)
Can garage be more specific
It would be a shame to replace turbo and find out was only leaking vac pipes to vnt actuator or duff boost solenoid.
If any help the turbo actuator needs to receive at least 600mb vacuum to move the vanes to the max spool position (resting on stop screw)
So if garage or you have a vac gauge , start car and let idle look at the turbo see vnt has pulled towards the actuator and is resting on stop.
If not pull pipe off actuator and test vaccum at pipe(is it over 600mb)
If it is and vnt mechanism not moving with pipe put back on / off
Its probably seized vnt vanes or mechanism or a faulty actuator(that could be tested for with a leak drop test)with a bit of dexterity probably be able to manually operate vnt arm to check if seized easier on a garage lift.
If there isnt 600 mbar or more probably quicker to test right on the vac pump outlet to save time , more than 600mbar here , no possible vac pump issue(never read of any on here)
If yes try the supply side of vnt boost solenoid same as vac pump , plenty of vac
Test outlet of valve direct, no vac probable duff vnt solenoid
If good vac leaking pipework to actuator.
As above seems funny your getting no eml lights or errors
If your keeping the car id suggest buying a cheap lead and downloading multiscan software for diagnosis help and fault codes( see sticky on stilo main page about fes / multiscan)
Or anyone near you who already has code reader.

Sounds like garage is looking easy way out

o.k. just gone outside to help out a bit more I have done a few vids of my vnt and vac pressure etc, its a jtdm 16v but should be similar values
(if anyone has elean or similar for stilo please cut and paste what it has to say on vnt and boost solenoid operation and testing etc officially)

so heres what im using a cheapish vac gauge -1000mbar range and a few bits of rubber tubing as adaptors big to small and a 100ml syringe.

so first off heres the vac a source ie the vac pump outlet

around -950mbar or vac
ps original fiat clip is now replaced with one of these 10-12mm fitted ok as even my vac hose felt a bit loose on hose tail
http://imageshack.us/a/img703/4/ycr3.jpg

vac hose to pump replaced and secure move to silicone tubinh that's fitted to the turbo actuator seen here viewed from under the car(blue pipe )


pull that pipe off and check vac pressure at the pipe like this
this is where you may need adaptor to get down to pipe bore size (my syringe had a handy adaptor to smaller end)
http://imageshack.us/a/img845/2376/i2a4.jpg
and also my car is mapped so I no longer have full 75% vnt at idle so my vac is only just under -600mbar yours should be around-600mbar to -650mbar


finally I attached syringe to the actuator to manually operate the vnt to test for operation is smooth also tha when syringe pulled out to create a vac it stays operated and holds position to prove actuator diaphragm is not leaking( as vac is pulled vnt would move but slowly creep back even with syringe held firm)

with an extra person you can start and stop the engine to see the same sort of vnt movement, engine on actuator pulls in engine off actuator comes back out around 10mm movement.
I have a few extras in the way especially from above not sure if you can actually get hands on the vnt lever and move from above if it doesn't move to see if vnt vanes or mechanism sooted up and jammed

sorry for bad quality video but trying to do a few things and video on phone

if someone can copy what elearn has to say about vnt operation or testing we could knock up a vnt testing how to and stick it in as guide.

Thanks for that info, very helpful! I checked mine and the valve seems to be moving ok. I did notice the pipe between maf and turbo had lots of oily deposits.... I took it out and i think its leaking at the T-junctions where the small pipes join. I gaffa taped up around it and put it back in but i think now its actually worse! Car wont rev much past 2500rpm in 3rd/4th.... So im thinking problem is directly related to this pipe.... One of the thin pipes has a large bolt in the end of it like some sort of breather/bleeder... Is this correct? Does anyone have the part number for this pipe coz im thinking its prob leaking a bit more now with the squeez to get it back in... So ill prob just replace it

well just to update this post i have replaced the turbo this weekend and after a drive for a bit for everything to settle down all things are back to normal. very happy and forgot how well this car pulled. now onto the other issues it never ends with one of these cars

magpie31 said:

well just to update this post i have replaced the turbo this weekend and after a drive for a bit for everything to settle down all things are back to normal. very happy and forgot how well this car pulled. now onto the other issues it never ends with one of these cars

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Ah right, how much did a turbo set you back?

turbo was 130 from scrap yard but i would just wait before you buy it as mine worked great for 48 hours then tonight on way home driving fine then wham back to the old ways no power really stuck now as to what the hell is wrong. Really thinking of stripping this car and looking for something other than fiat not had this many problems with any other car i have owned and so hard to find the solution

It's just all modern diesels, if you buy a Saab vauxhall and some others they all have fiat engines, I actually left the vag scene because I was sick of problems like these, there's no getting away from it also how do you know the 2nd hand turbo hasn't developed the same problem?

Ah thats bad luck mate.... The fact my intake pipe is boggin tho and my messing with it caused a direct change in performance im sure it must be something to do with that. If i can get the part number ill get a new one in anyways and then take it from there. Must get someone to rev the car and see if i cant spot any other air leak in the system.... I wont be rushin out to buy a turbo in any event. Ill sort this pipe, then failing that ill change map sensor, and if still the same ill just keep it below 2500rpm, only really overtaking i need a bit more

Has anybody checked or looked at the diesel side? Sounds like the kinda faults we had back in the day with series1/2 escort turbos, it was fuel pump related problems, lack of fuel pressure causing a flat wall at a certain rpm because the boost over came the injection pressure. If you have 1bar of boost the injectors have to overcome that pressure before it would even let fuel out, which leads back to possible MAP sensor IF they have one. . . .

GrandeGuy said:

It's just all modern diesels, if you buy a Saab vauxhall and some others they all have fiat engines, I actually left the vag scene because I was sick of problems like these, there's no getting away from it also how do you know the 2nd hand turbo hasn't developed the same problem?

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kind of agree but i have been a VAG/ford guy for many years and never had any issues other than general wear and tear things only reason for this car was due to the size of the boot just needed the space. no wish i had waited till i had more money and got something else. Don't get me wrong when the car works i love it but just same issue now on and off for 3 months is getting me down.

I would be very surprised if this turbo had the same fault as if it did the 3 turbos this car has eaten in different ways and that is just not right there must be something else making them fail.

Also, not some thing crazy like intake pipe collapsing under heavy vacuum is it?

GrandeGuy said:

Also, not some thing crazy like intake pipe collapsing under heavy vacuum is it?

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The actual intake pipe isnt subjected to heavy vacuum tho is it? Heavy air flow just.... Or do u mean the vacuum pipes that control the turbo actuator? Cant see them collapsing tho, dont know enough about it tho i spose, maybe they could

magpie31 said:

kind of agree but i have been a VAG/ford guy for many years and never had any issues other than general wear and tear things only reason for this car was due to the size of the boot just needed the space. no wish i had waited till i had more money and got something else. Don't get me wrong when the car works i love it but just same issue now on and off for 3 months is getting me down.

I would be very surprised if this turbo had the same fault as if it did the 3 turbos this car has eaten in different ways and that is just not right there must be something else making them fail.

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Aye, tho i doubt my turbo has failed coz i get good boost up to about 2500rpm, although i dont know enough about the workings of the vvt. Im almost certain i have some sort of air flow leak of sorts, with the soiled pipe and the performance difference after i tampered with it. Ud wanna have a look around yours too see if theres any signs of that. Does anyone know wat importance that engine breather pipe plays? Ie if i were to temporarily join the turbo direct to the airbox without the engine breather pipe and oil trap pipe connected to see if itll pull properly above 3000rpm, would that work??

Daveystrings said:

Aye, tho i doubt my turbo has failed coz i get good boost up to about 2500rpm, although i dont know enough about the workings of the vvt. Im almost certain i have some sort of air flow leak of sorts, with the soiled pipe and the performance difference after i tampered with it. Ud wanna have a look around yours too see if theres any signs of that. Does anyone know wat importance that engine breather pipe plays? Ie if i were to temporarily join the turbo direct to the airbox without the engine breather pipe and oil trap pipe connected to see if itll pull properly above 3000rpm, would that work??

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Yeah going to get under the car tonight if have have time and see if i can see anything did notice this morning was sat with my foot on the loud pedal and notice a bit of smoke/steam not sure from the left hand side near the airbox so thinking something could have come lose

Daveystrings said:

The actual intake pipe isnt subjected to heavy vacuum tho is it? Heavy air flow just.... Or do u mean the vacuum pipes that control the turbo actuator? Cant see them collapsing tho, dont know enough about it tho i spose, maybe they could

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It was another fault from back in the day, Had a problem with a turbo car and it was baffling everyone, until we had it on a rolling road and watched the pipe squeeze it's self together, couldn't belive it but :shrug:

GrandeGuy said:

It was another fault from back in the day, Had a problem with a turbo car and it was baffling everyone, until we had it on a rolling road and watched the pipe squeeze it's self together, couldn't belive it but :shrug:

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Is there a way of testing this without a rolling road

The std intake is still on my car running nearly 2 bar boost full whack and with a good filter/ clean filter and no obstructions in the snorkel to the airbox, ive had no issue with inlet pipe collapsing.
With the design of the pipe its quite hard to squash by hand even.
I think youll be allright at 1.3 bar boost.
Of course any blockages or wet filter etc will create more vacuum.
You need to try to seal that pipe up though, any air that is sucked in after the maf will not be measured and the result will be reduced fuel injected and less power.

i have just found that the oil breather pipe has snapped off from the pipe from the air box to the turbo would that have anything to do with it