Hi -

In September last year I installed two new front wishbones on my JTD, at about 110,000 miles (link). Last week (after 15 months and 20,000 miles) both the wishbones failed the MOT for excessive play on the ball-joint (one was visibly rattling around, completely loose).

The supplier, who I have previously regarded as highly trustworthy, says that 20,000 miles is normal service life for a wishbone and I have no grounds to complain. I can't see how that's right - if the originals lasted 110,000 miles, then a good OEM part should be at least capable of half that.

Am I being unreasonable in my expectations?

Thanks -
Steve

Well it's either an OEM part or it isn't firstly, so was it a genuine part fitted or a pattern part?

I'd have said its a bit short on the life, but if you buy a pattern part it is unfortunately the risk you take

No, ball joints should lasts a lot longer than 20000 miles, unless you live in botswana or somewhere that with fought and sandy terrain. I'ld put it down to poor quality parts. I had a similar problem with drop links. They lasted 15 months before they need replacing again? sometimes genuine fiat is the way to go even if they are more expensive

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Well it's either an OEM part or it isn't firstly, so was it a genuine part fitted or a pattern part?

I'd have said its a bit short on the life, but if you buy a pattern part it is unfortunately the risk you take

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The parts are made by Birth, who appear to be a reasonably professional Italian manufacturer, with ISO certificates etc. From a quick google they are said to be an OEM supplier eg here or here. But that may just be wishful thinking by a sales department, of course...

I'm just annoyed because I'd already been burned by substandard eBay parts, and I thought I could rely on a specialist firm to supply a decent quality product. I paid twice the price for these replacements, but they haven't proved to be much better than eBay unbranded tat.

Well, as a second opinion, I think that is unfortunately quite a typical innings for replacement wishbones/ball joints. This has been a general problem for years, starting with the Uno - replacements just don't last as long as the originals. I've had as little as 15,000km from replacements.

You're not being unreasonable in your expectations - it is fair to expect half the life of OE-fit for half the price, but that isn't what you get. It's more like one-fifth the life for one-quarter the price. On that basis, it might make better economic sense to fit genuine parts if you're keeping the car, but there is that huge price difference.

On that other thread, someone mentioned TRW as being available. That's an OE-brand and would be worth trying to find as a middle-ground option for price, with hopefully almost the longest possible lifespan.

At least replacing Stilo control arms isn't as much of a pain as on the similar-age Alfa 156 or 147, and there's no upper arm for a repeat saga. I was rebuilding the suspension as frequently as I was changing the engine oil.

-Alex

I am not familiar with Birth wishbones but I tend to use these guys for suspension arms. TRW are Alfa OEM part suppliers so I guess they will also be used by Fiat:

www.mister-auto.co.uk

driver33 said:

I am not familiar with Birth wishbones but I tend to use these guys for suspension arms. TRW are Alfa OEM part suppliers so I guess they will also be used by Fiat:

www.mister-auto.co.uk

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Yes, agreed. However, the part I found at that website is 'Bölk'-brand. Pity.
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/track-control-arm/fiat-stilo-192-2-4-20v-170ch_v16210_g273.html

Oh! Look what you find when you scroll down - TRW for a reasonable price!

You even have the option (under 'other brands') of Lemförder, which is well-known and reputable.

I'm sure it is a case of getting what you pay for - even the photos suggest a difference in the quality of materials (you might not think paint finish and casting/machining accuracy is important, and it probably isn't, but in my experience it's an indicator of quality that extends to the parts you can't see).

Obviously, they sell all these different brands for a reason, too! Otherwise they'd only stock one brand.

Note that for some brands (e.g. Delphi, another OE-supplier) there seems to be two options for the size of the rear bush, so it would be necessary to figure out which one suits the car in question.

Well done - sorry I was too quick to judge!

-Alex

£378.32 for a pair from fiat!!!

richydraper said:

£378.32 for a pair from fiat!!!

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Where did you find that?

That's why driver33's link is so useful. Hope they ship overseas...

-Alex

erm... eper

alexGS said:

Where did you find that?

That's why driver33's link is so useful. Hope they ship overseas...

-Alex

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Yes, thank you driver33. The proper TRW parts are £63 with the site discount, which is comparable to what shop4parts were charging for the dangerously poor parts they supplied to me.

Guess where I'll be shopping in future....

I have bought wishbones from bypartsbuy which have proved satisfactory, and certainly outlasted the old stilo. My most recent purchase was from GSF - so far its been on for two years (but only 15k miles,over our rough local roads, and really hardly a decent test period.) Cost around £30-35 as I recall. I would expect a lot more than 20 k miles.

I have used Shop4parts for years and did have one pair of Alfa upper arms that failed after 10 months. The were replaced for free and the info provided suggested that even some of the Alfa supplied wishbones were not lasting.

I now make sure that all bushes are liberally coated in rubber grease before installation. Particularly beneficial for 156/GT/147 upper arms (upper arms are gladly not a problem for the Stilo)

Just had my lower suspension joints replaced on both sides. Originals been on car 85k and 10 years. Think I was lucky though.

Had an hour free at the weekend so I took the gaiter off one and degreased it to examine the extent of free play in the balljoint :



Several millimetres of movement in all directions, not surprising that the MOT chap said it was dangerous. shop4parts appear to think that this is OK, and customers should just expect to change them every 15,000 miles along with the brake pads....

Wow yes can see why you got a fail least tester was being honest,,I replaced one last year for mot and did other side this year for mot this month but both had wear on the larger rubber bush not the ball joint ..how did you do the miles was it motorway or A roads I am mostly A roads with pot holes and done 20,000 miles since owned my jtd m/w so think I was replacing origenals

15000 mies life for ball joints and brake pads!!! what a load of rubbish! He's having you on for sure, my wife's fiesta which we've had since new (58 plate) has now got 43000 miles on it, just passed its mot with the original ball joints on and 2 months ago I serviced it and the pads still had about 7mm of life left in them..... I think this is a serious case of a supplier fobbing someone off because they supply poor quality parts! You must complain!

gadge said:

15000 mies life for ball joints and brake pads!!! what a load of rubbish! He's having you on for sure, my wife's fiesta which we've had since new (58 plate) has now got 43000 miles on it, just passed its mot with the original ball joints on and 2 months ago I serviced it and the pads still had about 7mm of life left in them..... I think this is a serious case of a supplier fobbing someone off because they supply poor quality parts! You must complain!

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As I said before, I've had as little as 15,000 *km* from ball joints - so it's true that it's typical, but I agree with you that it's a "rubbish" situation... I'll be buying brand-name parts in future (TRW, Lemförder, Delphi, all good options highlighted earlier in this thread.) yes they cost more, maybe even twice as much, but are likely to be much better quality than all these mysterious brands provide, and may last as long as the originals.

-Alex

gadge said:

15000 mies life for ball joints and brake pads!!! what a load of rubbish! He's having you on for sure, my wife's fiesta which we've had since new (58 plate) has now got 43000 miles on it, just passed its mot with the original ball joints on and 2 months ago I serviced it and the pads still had about 7mm of life left in them..... I think this is a serious case of a supplier fobbing someone off because they supply poor quality parts! You must complain!

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To be fair, the supplier didn't specifically mention brake pads. He just said that 20,000 miles was a reasonable service life for the quality of parts supplied by his company (shop4parts). I extrapolated from this that it would be necessary to change them at 15,000 miles to avoid a catastrophic failure.

It is a very disappointing stance, especially from a supplier I had previously recommended here as trustworthy.

Steve148 said:

To be fair, the supplier didn't specifically mention brake pads. He just said that 20,000 miles was a reasonable service life for the quality of parts supplied by his company (shop4parts). I extrapolated from this that it would be necessary to change them at 15,000 miles to avoid a catastrophic failure.
.

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Sorry Steve but I gotta be honest here and say I disagree with your suppliers views. Of course there's absolutely nothing wrong with changing parts well before the end of their serviceable life - and I will be the first to admit that I've changed pads with plenty of life in them - but for a suppiler to suggest that ball joints and possibly brake pads should perhaps be changed at 20,000 is very premature indeed? in my opinion as an experienced mechanic some years ago is that a catitrophic failure of a ball joint would usually happen around 40-50,000 miles. If you were to change your ball joints at 15'000 it would mean you'ld have to do it nealy every year? and that can't be right surely?