Technical Jtd 115 - major issues!!!! [stuck open EGR?]

Currently reading:
Technical Jtd 115 - major issues!!!! [stuck open EGR?]

Been asking a few people about this swirl gasket.

Why aren't they installed in new cars?

The answer I was given is because its not to swirl the air as the name suggests but to reduce the flow of air and gunk into the inlet manifold of older cars.
 
Do you know for what purpose this would be desirable ?

As far as I can tell, the ERG works well when new but rapidly becomes a problem as gunk inhibits its proper function. Once cleaned and its proper performance returned, the installation of this "swirl" gasket considerably slows down air flow and the build up of gunk. As a result the performance of the ERG is reduced to a minimum and its next clean extended, perhaps indefinately. Time will tell.
 
As far as I can tell, the ERG works well when new but rapidly becomes a problem as gunk inhibits its proper function. Once cleaned and its proper performance returned, the installation of this "swirl" gasket considerably slows down air flow and the build up of gunk. As a result the performance of the ERG is reduced to a minimum and its next clean extended, perhaps indefinately. Time will tell.
I think your find the swirl gasket has little to do with reducing flow but more with creating turbulence - which ensures an improved air/exhaust gas mix.

I have to admit though, from my experience, it seems to make the EGR problem free after fitting (perhaps I'm just lucky) so perhaps a lot less soot is deposited :chin:
 
I think your find the swirl gasket has little to do with reducing flow but more with creating turbulence - which ensures an improved air/exhaust gas mix.

The space for the air to flow through has been reduced by more than 80%. If its all about "creating turbulence" its a major design failure.

Some motorcycles use a simple bladed device to create turbulence on the induction side. It looks similar to the attached photo
 

Attachments

  • Turb blades.jpg
    Turb blades.jpg
    73.4 KB · Views: 15
I never designed it so I'm afraid I can't comment on that.

but that was the reason given on its release by Fiat and then of course you have the name which you yourself have used ("swirl").

If we use your figure of a reduction in area of 80% then there would be, everything else being equal, a localised increase in air-flow by a factor of 5X which in turn would cause heavy turbulence of the air-stream.

A more interesting discussion might be where it should be placed. Mine is next to the manifold.
 
Last edited:
I never designed it so I'm afraid I can't comment on that.

but that was the reason given on its release by Fiat and then of course you have the name which you yourself have used ("swirl").

either way it seems to work :shrug:

It could be called Chocolate cake, but doesn't mean its actually Chocolate cake does it?

You really expect FIAT to admit they have a design flaw in their EGR? :ROFLMAO:
You said yourself its been redesigned?

FIAT can call it what ever they like, the design of it speaks volumes.

Its seems to work but so does blocking it off completely? An 80% reduction is almost as good as blocking it off I'd say.
 
Last edited:
.Its seems to work but so does blocking it off completely? An 80% reduction is almost as good as blocking it off I'd say.
Not at all.

There's no comparison between a fully blocked EGR and a functioning one and in any case the notion that the air-flow is reduced by that amount indicates a poor understanding of air-flow dynamics.
 
Not at all.

There's no comparison between a fully blocked EGR and a functioning one

Thats the point, cars with a few miles on them dont have fully functioning EGR's, hence this thread and the increase in performance and MPG most people talk about when it is blocked off. As I've said before, EGR's work well in new cars, not so well if at all in old cars.

As for me saying the air flow was reduced by that amount(80%) maybe you should read the posts before commenting. :rolleyes:

The space for the air to flow through has been reduced by more than 80%.

Anyone using a bit of junior school physics will tell you an 80% reduction in bore size will signifficantly reduce its effectiveness. air-flow dynamics. :ROFLMAO:
 
Last edited:
Work this one out:

Purchased car, running like a dog off boost, have full service and discover that EGR valve not working - 47mpg

New EGR valve fitted, old one had been blanked and blown through - but get exactly the same 47mpg !!

One month later, fit swirl gasket and suddenly 50-51mpg (+ ~5%)

How to explain - swirl gives better combustion efficiency ??
 
It's a nice thought but I suspect it's a combination of both (so many factors can affect mpg)

Swirl gasket can't create any turbulence at all without a working EGR ;)

But the only change was a swirl gasket on top of an installed and fully functioning new EGR ??
 
Using the computer, which I verified was accurate to 0.5mpg by doing brim-to-brim calculation. I am then running the average on a cumulative basis across multiple tank loads. I have only done one tank with the swirl in place but the computer has move the average up 3 ticks. I'll see how we go, but I think it will turn out to be real.
 
I'll see how we go, but I think it will turn out to be real.
I think you'd need to remove the swirl gasket to prove this conclusively (with more consumption runs) but at the end of the day if it works then be happy with it (y)

There's a kind of logic to this though since if the incoming exhaust gas + air is mixed more thoroughly within the manifold then you'd expect a cleaner/better burn.

As a matter of interest where did you fit it (see my post #47)
 
hi I stilo jtd Hass loss of power and the more I rev the more smoke I get but worning light I feel like the cluck has more power than the when I rev anyone to help me slove it
 
Back
Top