OP
OP
Well performance is much better! Pulling from just under 2.5k now and much smoother...
Looking forward to see if it smokes tomorrow morning!
Looking forward to see if it smokes tomorrow morning!
Technical Blue Smoke on Start-up (MultiJet 150)
- Thread starter adruss85
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Technical Blue Smoke on Start-up (MultiJet 150)
So you didn't ask what was done then? (assuming you didn't get a bill 
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I did but you never know with these dealers
Took my Corsa to the Vauxhall dealership once, diagnosed £400 of problems
Took it back to have the work done, and they did something else :bang:
In fact it's running so well i may spend some more money on it :idea:
Took my Corsa to the Vauxhall dealership once, diagnosed £400 of problems
Took it back to have the work done, and they did something else :bang:
In fact it's running so well i may spend some more money on it :idea:
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ananku
New member
Hi, just joined the Forum. I have a Stilo 150 Multijet Sporting Nov 2006. I have been reading this thread, and guess what? I to have blue smoke at start up, masses of it.
My dealer tells me its fuel, however, I think its oil. I have had a new ECR and MAF, and neither of these have fixed the problem. My dealer has had my car on and off for about 2 weeks trying to fix this without luck. I am currently monitoring the problem post a new coolant sensor. Still no improvement.
I have just spent all night reading the Fiat workshop manual trying to get a understanding of how the engine works. Please post your findings following your cars return?
My dealer tells me its fuel, however, I think its oil. I have had a new ECR and MAF, and neither of these have fixed the problem. My dealer has had my car on and off for about 2 weeks trying to fix this without luck. I am currently monitoring the problem post a new coolant sensor. Still no improvement.
I have just spent all night reading the Fiat workshop manual trying to get a understanding of how the engine works. Please post your findings following your cars return?
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Will let you know tomorrow morning after my drive to work!
Looks like we could have 2 that came from the same shift at the factory
EDIT: Has he looked at the valve stem seals? These days dealers seem to be obsessed with sensors, never actually considering any mechanical problems!
If mine is still smoking tomorrow then i'll be calling them up!
Looks like we could have 2 that came from the same shift at the factory
EDIT: Has he looked at the valve stem seals? These days dealers seem to be obsessed with sensors, never actually considering any mechanical problems!
If mine is still smoking tomorrow then i'll be calling them up!
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ananku
New member
I have not discussed anything related to the oil side of the engine yet, as I am trying to get my head around how this engine works. I will post my thoughts tomorrow (now today) on what the possabilities are, in my opinion of course.
My dealer has supported on this problem once they accepted that it was smoking - took a bit, and I threatened to contact Fiat UK direct. All efforts to date have been focused upon the fuel side, even though I have told them that I believe its oil. I have even had calibrated injectors fitted as a test, which didnt change anything.
My dealer has supported on this problem once they accepted that it was smoking - took a bit, and I threatened to contact Fiat UK direct. All efforts to date have been focused upon the fuel side, even though I have told them that I believe its oil. I have even had calibrated injectors fitted as a test, which didnt change anything.
Blue Smoke on Start-up
When starting up from cold is there a cloud of light blue smoke from the exhaust for a short while and looks and smells like burning oil ?
Does it use oil a lot more than usual ?
When starting up from cold is there a cloud of light blue smoke from the exhaust for a short while and looks and smells like burning oil ?
Does it use oil a lot more than usual ?
OP
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Mine's still smoking and running rough first thing.
Will give the dealer another call today and see what they say.
Will give the dealer another call today and see what they say.
When cold you can feel that its 'cold' by the vibrations of the engine so to speak, through the cabin/on the steering wheel etc
but once warmed up my car is fine.
it creates a little bit of smoke on startup, but this isnt as bad as some cars ive seen
have you had to top the oil up in your car, or looked at it and found its gone down?
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OP
I'd like to think i know enough about cars to tell the difference between being cold, and running rough! Well i hope i do :devil:
Basically there's no change from the vid i posted, it's just a bit quicker at low revs
Basically there's no change from the vid i posted, it's just a bit quicker at low revs
ananku, have you seen the two you tube videos,can you post a video of your smoke so we can compare amounts, my car is registered 09 2006 this could be a batch problem? engine number is 4xx2153(put some xxs in dont want to post exact number) having trouble with flat battery last week and today, on charge now will hopefully drop it off tommorow to get it checked out.
http://www.youtube.com/v/DnuhqICnYDk&hl=en
http://www.youtube.com/v/DnuhqICnYDk&hl=en
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ananku
New member
A little background on myself. I am a Engineering Manager working for one of the worlds largest Diesel Engine Manufacturers for the last 29 years. The Fiat / Alfa group lead the way (in my view) in diesel engine technology when it comes to car powered performance. I have had Alfas for years, however, due to a recent divorce finance is a little low so it’s the next best thing – a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Common platform parts …..Alfa on a budget.
I have read the Fiat Workshop manual to try and understand how this engine works, and I must say that it is very complicated. The engine relies on electronic management as with any modern petrol variant. The fuel injectors inject fuel into the cylinder a total of 5 times over one cycle, 2 before TDC 1 at TDC and 2 post TDC. This is controlled via sensors around the engine reading various conditions.
So for blue smoke at start up there are two possibilities, oil getting into the cylinder, inlet or exhaust system (you only need a few drops), or to much fuel. Normally this is seen as black or grey smoke. However, diesel is oil so it can cause blue smoke in some conditions.
Possible cause for oil would be:
1- Inlet and exhaust valve oil seals.
2- Crankcase oil vapour recalculation system. I believe that this takes the vapour as a gas and terminates it into the turbocharger air intake. Possibly the gas is condensing as its approaches the turbo.
3- Possible wrong spec engine oil. This has been eliminated, refer to the thread listed earlier.
4- Turbocharger worn bushes or seals.
Fuel possibilities:
1- Mass Air Flow Meter. This reads (amongst other things) the air temp entering into the turbo which alters the amount of fuel injected into the engine.
2- Inlet Manifold intake air temperature and excess pressure sensor. This again measures the air temp entering the cylinder and adjusts the amount of fuel being injected.
3- Injectors hosing or dribbling. This gives incorrect spray pattern and incomplete combustion.
4- Coolant temp sensor. Works as 1 and 2.
My dealer has contacted Fiat UK who are sending a Technician to look at my car :worship:, I have asked to be present and they have agreed. I would appreciate anyone who has this problem to post your engine number so that we can get an understanding if there is a manufacturing problem associated around a build date. Although, I dont understand how Fiat build their engines, i.e. all down the same line or they mix the types up.
My engine number is: 50xx390
Car registered Nov 2006.
I am the 2nd owner, for circa 3 mths.
…..Alfa on a budget. I have read the Fiat Workshop manual to try and understand how this engine works, and I must say that it is very complicated. The engine relies on electronic management as with any modern petrol variant. The fuel injectors inject fuel into the cylinder a total of 5 times over one cycle, 2 before TDC 1 at TDC and 2 post TDC. This is controlled via sensors around the engine reading various conditions.
So for blue smoke at start up there are two possibilities, oil getting into the cylinder, inlet or exhaust system (you only need a few drops), or to much fuel. Normally this is seen as black or grey smoke. However, diesel is oil so it can cause blue smoke in some conditions.
Possible cause for oil would be:
1- Inlet and exhaust valve oil seals.
2- Crankcase oil vapour recalculation system. I believe that this takes the vapour as a gas and terminates it into the turbocharger air intake. Possibly the gas is condensing as its approaches the turbo.
3- Possible wrong spec engine oil. This has been eliminated, refer to the thread listed earlier.
4- Turbocharger worn bushes or seals.
Fuel possibilities:
1- Mass Air Flow Meter. This reads (amongst other things) the air temp entering into the turbo which alters the amount of fuel injected into the engine.
2- Inlet Manifold intake air temperature and excess pressure sensor. This again measures the air temp entering the cylinder and adjusts the amount of fuel being injected.
3- Injectors hosing or dribbling. This gives incorrect spray pattern and incomplete combustion.
4- Coolant temp sensor. Works as 1 and 2.
My dealer has contacted Fiat UK who are sending a Technician to look at my car :worship:, I have asked to be present and they have agreed. I would appreciate anyone who has this problem to post your engine number so that we can get an understanding if there is a manufacturing problem associated around a build date. Although, I dont understand how Fiat build their engines, i.e. all down the same line or they mix the types up.
My engine number is: 50xx390
Car registered Nov 2006.
I am the 2nd owner, for circa 3 mths.
not too far apart number wise il change mine to same format
registered sept 06
engine number 48xx153
find it hard to beieve they made 2000+ 150 16v within 3 months so am guessing all sizes and types of engines are numbered as they come off the lines, so may be hard to get a link between them.
just noticed one link we all live quite close shrewsbury,chester and wrexham but my car was originally stoke on trent.
registered sept 06
engine number 48xx153
find it hard to beieve they made 2000+ 150 16v within 3 months so am guessing all sizes and types of engines are numbered as they come off the lines, so may be hard to get a link between them.
just noticed one link we all live quite close shrewsbury,chester and wrexham but my car was originally stoke on trent.
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looks like our engines are made here.and they make a lot
nicked this from a link from fpt
The new 1.6 diesel Multijet is produced at the FMA plant at Pratola Serra, which currently employs around 1700 workers with an average age of 33. Opened in 1993, the site has a production capacity of 600,000 vehicles per annum, and manufactures both petrol (1.6 16v, 1.8 16v, 2.0 16v, 2.0 20v, 2.4 20v) and diesel engines (1.9 8v JTD, 1.9 16v JTD, 2.4 20v JTD and recently the 1.9 16v 180hp TST). The Pratola Serra plant can also lay claim to major international certifications including the ISO 9002, ISO 14001 and ISO TS 16949, but most importantly the Excellence in Consistent TPM Commitment 1st Category – recognition which is much sought-after in the field of preventive maintenance, which certifies the level of excellence of the plant and its products.
nicked this from a link from fpt
The new 1.6 diesel Multijet is produced at the FMA plant at Pratola Serra, which currently employs around 1700 workers with an average age of 33. Opened in 1993, the site has a production capacity of 600,000 vehicles per annum, and manufactures both petrol (1.6 16v, 1.8 16v, 2.0 16v, 2.0 20v, 2.4 20v) and diesel engines (1.9 8v JTD, 1.9 16v JTD, 2.4 20v JTD and recently the 1.9 16v 180hp TST). The Pratola Serra plant can also lay claim to major international certifications including the ISO 9002, ISO 14001 and ISO TS 16949, but most importantly the Excellence in Consistent TPM Commitment 1st Category – recognition which is much sought-after in the field of preventive maintenance, which certifies the level of excellence of the plant and its products.
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i'll better that, car was registered with fiat uk as first owner, bought it in telford! I am also 2nd owner of around 6 weeks total.
Ananku - the replacement MAF sensor and EGR valve did very little. What i have noticed is that at first start there is alot of stuttering if i dip the throttle, there is also the usual diesel rattle, but this persists through to when it's warm if i accelerate sharply. This is my first diesel so no idea if this has anything to do with anything.
Not wanting to sound like a numpty, but where is my engine number? On the Chassis plate?
Ananku - the replacement MAF sensor and EGR valve did very little. What i have noticed is that at first start there is alot of stuttering if i dip the throttle, there is also the usual diesel rattle, but this persists through to when it's warm if i accelerate sharply. This is my first diesel so no idea if this has anything to do with anything.
Not wanting to sound like a numpty, but where is my engine number? On the Chassis plate?
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best place is on the log book saves you getting dirty,about half way down sheet.ps which dealer has your car been going to, mines going to stoneacre wrexham wed to check out battery
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Windsors Fiat - Heswall (nearest to work). Was looking at a black Sporting Mjet 120 at Stoneacre before i got this one! Ananku, are you going to TJ Vickers? That's where i bought mine.
Registered 23/10/2006
Engine# 46**134
Registered 23/10/2006
Engine# 46**134
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ananku
New member
My dealer is Fiat Shrewsbury - TJ Vickers. The car was originally from Scunthorpe, however, you cant go by where its from as they ship all around the country and Europe for that matter.
The engine numbers dont supprise me as this engine goes in lots of cars:-
Alfa 159, GT, 147.
Fiat Stilo, Bravo (new), Croma, punto, multipla, sedici
Vauxhall Corsa, Vectra, Astra, Signum
These are the ones I know about, possibly 1000s of engines?????
To answer earlier questions. My engine is producing the same smoke problem as the two videos on Youtube. Iam not loosing oil, as you only need a few drops to give you smoke. I have also followed the car on my motorbike (faster than the Stilo - shameful I know) and I watched the cars exhaust. There is no problem with the exhaust emissions at any engine load or speed condition. Its only at start up. And I dont get any engineperformance problems. i.e when its started its running ok. I am happy that my engine is ok at all conditions except start up.
Does anyone have any boost problems? i.e. loss of power pully off from junctions or just driving along?
Sorry but can remember the user name for this question. The knock your hearing when cold is called piston slap. This goes when the engine is warm. Its caused by the running clearance between the piston skirt and the cylinder wall. When the components warm up the clearance decreases and the slap goes away. This is common on diesels but not on petrols - MG Rover have this problem on their 1.8L petrol.
The engine numbers dont supprise me as this engine goes in lots of cars:-
Alfa 159, GT, 147.
Fiat Stilo, Bravo (new), Croma, punto, multipla, sedici
Vauxhall Corsa, Vectra, Astra, Signum
These are the ones I know about, possibly 1000s of engines?????
To answer earlier questions. My engine is producing the same smoke problem as the two videos on Youtube. Iam not loosing oil, as you only need a few drops to give you smoke. I have also followed the car on my motorbike (faster than the Stilo - shameful I know) and I watched the cars exhaust. There is no problem with the exhaust emissions at any engine load or speed condition. Its only at start up. And I dont get any engineperformance problems. i.e when its started its running ok. I am happy that my engine is ok at all conditions except start up.
Does anyone have any boost problems? i.e. loss of power pully off from junctions or just driving along?
Sorry but can remember the user name for this question. The knock your hearing when cold is called piston slap. This goes when the engine is warm. Its caused by the running clearance between the piston skirt and the cylinder wall. When the components warm up the clearance decreases and the slap goes away. This is common on diesels but not on petrols - MG Rover have this problem on their 1.8L petrol
.
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Ah ok. My problems are indentical to yours so i'll be interested in what the Fiat UK technician says. Do you know when he will be coming up? I will also print out some info from this thread to give to my dealer, although at the moment i can't really afford to be without my car, or pay insurance on a courtesy car! :bang:
No boost problems of note, not now MAF and EGR have been replaced. I've noticed my engine seems to be limited to ~3900rpm when cold. Well i hope it's the limiter
No boost problems of note, not now MAF and EGR have been replaced. I've noticed my engine seems to be limited to ~3900rpm when cold. Well i hope it's the limiter
Ouch! That sounds painful. I hope you haven't told your dealer you treat your engine like thatI've noticed my engine seems to be limited to ~3900rpm when cold. Well i hope it's the limiter
Remind me never to buy a car from you
