(T) My 1.6 won't start now it's 2007!

Strange. It has always started promptly, but the very first start of 2007 it just won't... The starter runs as hell, but it will not ignite. Every electrics inside are working (ofcourse I have shut them off in case there is a battery voltage problem).

Will do some simple checks myself, but if someone has encountered this, please let me know.

Coils?
D4 / moist?
Poor voltage?
Fuses?
Fuel block?

Happy new year to all Stilos driving around.

Morten.

I have done some checks myself now.

Battery shows 12.2 volts. I have not found any current-leaks. The starter turns fine.

Fuses seems fine. Nice and dry engine bay and battery compartment.

Removed 4 Sagem coils with Fiat NGK plugs. When facing engine, the leftmost plug was nearly dry, when the other 3 were wet and smelling gasoline. All 4 plugs are sooted very black.

So I guess there is an ignition problem somewhere. Can 3 coils fail at the same time? Are my plugs knackered? See the attachment (from NGK's site). Plug 1 looks like the dry one, and plugs 2-4 looks like a combo of the two alternatives.

HELP!

Morten.

Looks like you have fuel going in then otherwise I would have said check the fuel shut off hasn't triggered. Reset it anyway, just in case

Even with one coil down it would still start but if it doesn't know when to spark then it won't

Turning over with no ignition at all sounds like crankshaft sensor or its connection so I'd check out the crank sensor connection (take it apart and blow it out) and see if it's sending a signal if you have a multi meter

What engine is it?

Hello, and thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I'm left with some questions to your suggestions.

Where is this valve / button / plug? And how do I reset it?

It tries to ignite, maybe on one cylinder, with some coughing, but it will not trigger enough cylinders / sparks to get it to idling at all. I can hold the starter into eternity... not that I do though.

Where do I locate the crankshaft sensor?

I do have a multimeter, a good one actually. But I have only used it to measure battery power and for house-electrics (220V) when changing light switches etc. So how do I check if it's sending a signal? Will I need someone to crank the engine while I search for some pins etc. on the engine block. Pretty much an amateur when it comes to electrics.

Same as yours. 2002 1.6 Dynamic. Just to mention it doesn't use oil at all.

Morten.

OK the fuel inertia cut off switch is easy to find on the 1.6, it's just to the left of where the passenger's left foot would be, behind a little panel. Just press the button on top of the switch to reset it. But that just cuts the fuel in case of accident and it sounds like you have fuel being delivered. Worth a try though in any case of sudden non starting of engine

What's the history here? Has it been running absolutely fine up til now?
Starting ok normally?
No hesitations?
Good battery etc?
How long had it been left since last running?
Not getting any fault codes thrown up?

The crank sensor is a proximity sensor (hey here it is again- let's send a signal- you know the sort of thing) and senses a gap out of the many teeth on the crank pulley to signal the position of the crank



Sensor is shown here as 2B
Symptoms tend to be "running absolutely fine" and then "just doesn't start at all" then it's fine again
Again, it doesn't fit your symptoms exactly

Check the connector to it. Checking it's operation isn't quite so easy

Having 3 coils suddenly go bad would be bizarre - unless the car was struck by lightning (You may laugh, lightning hit a young girls metal bedpost here last night, why she was sleeping in the garden I don't know )

Hello, and thanks for reply. History:

Bought february 2006 through main dealer Motorforum (owned by Fiat) in Norway. Originally owned by an old man, who sold it to Motorforum as an exchange for another car. The Stilo rested for 1,5 years trying to be sold. Gone 46.000 km by now. Cam belt changed at 38.000 km. Full service history at Motorforum. After 14 days of ownership everything went wrong. The car ran, but every fault message on this forum lit up as a christmas tree. Anyway Fiat changed the ECU, updated, even drove in a Stilo expert from another town to get it sorted. So it has basically worked perfectly for about a year. Had "low oil pressure" warning during inital startup on some hot days this summer, but they disappeared when giving a little throttle (at idle) or a stop/start over again.

So there are no fault codes in the display. It doesn't say "check ok" as it never does unless the engine has started. But all electrics are fully operational. The battery was changed before I got the car, to a "Varta" brand. Have recharged it twice to be sure this year (2006). There has never been any hesitations when starting, but it sometimes lacks power the first 5 seconds after starting. But I don't need to floor it either... Idles smoothly.

This came like a new year fireworks right in my face.

Will I find this sensor without having to jack up the car on the wet, dirty, street? Guess I have to deliver the car to read some codes out of it.

Lightning... Hehe, there actually were some thunderstrikes here last night. I refuse to believe it got the car though. Plenty of Norwegian mega-trees around here.

Morten.

A Stilo in Norway? What no Volvos left?

Will I find this sensor without having to jack up the car on the wet, dirty, street?
Crank sensor is a jack up and take off right hand side engine under shield if it's still there.

You've had a lot done on it by the sound of it which is ok but there's more that's been tampered with and therefore more that could be wrong. Reading off fault codes would be the quickest way to go. It's been running fine for a year so things sound good. A one off oil pressure warning won't be significant

I'd check for sparks at the plug first thing

Thanks. Will phone Fiat tomorrow to read some codes. How to teleport the car there is another question.

Drivers side will be passengers side for me then... I'd most likely pay Fiat to check the sensor for me as they'll get the car anyway. Just had kid no. 2 delivered, and I don't think my wife would be a devoting and happy woman if I paid the Stilo as much attention as I did when rebuilding the Uno and Ritmo a couple of years back.

Will let you know of the progress.

Will a completely suffiocated air filter cause this mess? Like sooted plugs etc? I doubt it's ever changed according to servicing intervals. It seems to be due on next main service.

Morten.

The schedule for air filter change is too long and it ought to be a changed more regularly depending on your environment (pretty clean in Norway i remember) but it wouldn't cause your bad starting problems

Yes left hand side of car for your fuel inertia shut off valve

Worth investing in a fault code reader or laptop OBD connectors- its the way of the world now

Not actually desert landscape, but it might be the reason the plugs are carbonized.

Seems like Fiat have managed to put it at the passenger's side by the door independent on which side we drive on the road. It's on my right hand side...

Anyway, an update from todays towing to the garage. Fiat never phoned back as they were supposed to, and was also impossible to reach. Could easily reach the Fiat garage where I bought it, but that's 220 km away. They are wery professional actually, polite and helpful. But not that impression by Fiat where I live. He was to check my oil pressure, and estimated 5-6 hours to do it. At least. To insert a plug and check if pressure is OK? Forget it. I'm now towed to an independent garage where they were more than willing to check out the faults.

Anyway when stopped outside I thought I'd take a last startup, but no... it didn't ignite this time either. The battery seemed weaker, as I'd have the ignition and some lights on when "trailing". My friend pushed me towards the garage, and I pulled the handbrake lever when doing about 3-5 kmph - followed with the usual beeps when pulled in speed. But on the dash it said "aitbag failure" instead of "handbrake on". The poor thing. Hopefully it will get sorted soon.

When looking at my engine compartment the tube going into no 3. at the attachment picture seems to have a too tight bend - I guess nothing goes through it at all as it does a 90 deg. bend. What is no. 3?

Morten.

I wonder why they want to check your oil pressure? That's not going to prevent it from starting.

Checking your cylinder compressions would be good though.

Those pipes look like your vacuum pipe to your brake servo and your oil mist breather pipe. Could be wrong though

Sorry, it was a bad explanation from my side. This was an earlier incident, a couple of months after I experienced the low oil pressure warnings at initial start-up on warm days. Not an experience now.

Anyway, the garage has managed to get the car started. After a gigantic battery-booster (on wheels), it ignited, and the garage-man had a very enthusiastic test-drive around his workshop. Me and my son just got off the bus to watch the car start... But the guy concluded with the same results as I thought, ignition on one cylinder, hence one dry plug and three wet.

But - they haven't had time to find the fault yet. Imagine if it's all down to battery power? No errors on the display, so they should check with a computer to read off the memory.

I also spoke to Fiat, the "Stilo-expert" who fixed the ECU etc. last time. He actually told me that he'd lend a hand to the garage over phone if they wanted. The independent garage clerk almost shared a tear when I told him. No main dealer had been so friendly before. Anyway... if there was an error in the immobilizer, only a Fiat garage could read the correct codes, else it would just produce fictous errors, to prevent anyone from starting the car. Idiot system.

Follow-up tomorrow hopefully. I'm just happy it started.

Morten.

What a saga, Morten... !

It is a relief that it's started. I just wonder if three of the four ignition coils all failed at once.

So, Kid No.2 has been delivered?
That's great news! How close to Christmas was it, in the end?

I wonder if your son will ever end up driving a FIAT... LOL!

-Alex

Good that it's started.
Are you saying it's running on one cylinder all the time or do they all get going eventually?

Are the wet plugs wet with fuel, oil or water do you think?

Kind of a new year death-stroke maybe to them good old Sagem coils?

Thanks for caring, Alex. She came the 21st (the day the sun comes back). Was originally due for delivery the 24th, but luckily she was a bit eager to see the light of day. Beautiful kid... (She also has a beatiful mother).

Haha, might be. He recognised a Fiat before he turned 2 years old (soon 4 now), but what's important now is how many exhaust pipes a car has, if it's got a huge rear end spoiler and if it's got a rear/mid-placed engine, like Porche and some Ferraris. He is greatly disappointed that our Stilo only has one exhaust...

It tried to ignite one cylinder both here at home and at the garage. That was my initial thought, and also the garage-man (what should I call him? lacking English words here, hehe...) thought so. But after the giga-booster, he got it running on all four - he got severely high speed, high revs. and the great sound of a Fiat engine working hard outside the workshop, and drove it indoors to the lift / jack thing. That's where we left it and took the bus back home, so they could work without us hanging over their necks.

Suppose it's fuel. It smelled lovely as only gasoline does, and it was pretty clean. The oil hadn't been changed for a while so it would have been greasier and more contaminated I think.

Morten.