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Old 16-05-2012   #1
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Springs/dampers/struts - same as Punto? Also re-map

Since getting an old 911 as a second car, my Qubo MJ 75 has felt really slow and unwieldy, so I decided to do something about it. Stage 1: a re-map.

Took it Celtic Tuning today, and asked them to crank up the power. They tried several maps, and kept the one with the best power/torque balance - I could see what the dyno was showing on the flat screen in the waiting area. Now producing 102 bhp, and 169 lbft. I drove home the long way, with a couple of detours to get a good mix of driving.
Previously, there really was no point in revving past 3000rpm, as it felt quicker to change up and rely on the torque rather than power. Now, it's worth taking it up to 4000+.
Floor it at 70 in top, and it actually accelerates.
It'll pull top gear cleanly up hill below 40mph. On the original map, there was a nasty stutter just before the turbo came in.

I feel that it was 275 well spent.

My next task is to do something about the body roll. I'm thinking lowered progressive-rate springs. Problem is, I can't find anyone who lists uprated springs for the Qubo. Are they the same as the GP?
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Old 17-05-2012   #2
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Re: Springs/dampers/struts - same as Punto? Also re-map

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Now you have a bit more power than the factory 95 HP version. It really makes a big difference compared to the standard 75 HP version. I'll probabaly get mine remapped later on and think I might be able to get 115-120 HP out of it but 110 will be fine. I was interested in the Qubo long before I bought mine but 75 HP just wasn't enough for the size, weight and frontal area of the car. Actually, what it really needs is a bigger engine like the 1.6 rated at 115 HP where I live and 120 HP everywhere else. By the way, who did your remap?

As for the springs, I don't think that you'll want to use ones from a Punto 3 car. The Qubo was designed as a commercial vehicle and should be equipped to carry a heavier load than the car version of the same platform. Using car springs may greatly reduce your load carrying ability. On the other hand, a thicker anti-roll bar from one of the early sport versions (1.9 JTD with 120 or 130 HP) might be both an easy fit and a good and fairly cheap solutiion. Just remember to get the matching larger mounting brackets or you won't be able to attach it. Then let us know how it went or what other solution that you found. This is an upgrade that I'd like to make on my own car so I'll be watching for your reply.
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Old 17-05-2012   #3
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Re: Springs/dampers/struts - same as Punto? Also re-map

Re-map was done by a company called Celtic Tuning. Their head office is local to me, but they have agents in many countries. I was expecting them to just flash the chip, but the guy spent over an hour tweaking it to get the best results.
The receptionist told me that the manager's wife has a 500 Multijet, and they spent a lot of time getting the best from that. Apparently the 1.3 MJ in the 500 can be pushed up to 111bhp, but they could "only" get 102bhp from mine. I guess the Qubo 75 has a more restrictive exhaust or airbox than the 500? She did say that they removed the DPF from the 500, but the Qubo doesn't have one of those, does it?

Is the engine in the 95 different to the 75, or is it just tuned?

Good point about the anti-roll bars.
The Qubo is mostly used with just one or two people on-board. The rear seats have never been used for passengers, and I have thought about removing then to save weight - they are extremely heavy!
I do sometimes carry large objects in the back (with the seats folded down), but they are generally quite light.

Softer/lower springs, and thicker anti-roll bar(s) might be the best for me. The ride is currently quite jittery (stiff springs) and it rolls a lot (thin anti-roll bar?).

I really need to find a tuning specialist with Fiat experience.
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Old 18-05-2012   #4
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Re: Springs/dampers/struts - same as Punto? Also re-map

Quote Originally Posted by clockworks View Post
Re-map was done by a company called Celtic Tuning. Their head office is local to me, but they have agents in many countries. I was expecting them to just flash the chip, but the guy spent over an hour tweaking it to get the best results.
The receptionist told me that the manager's wife has a 500 Multijet, and they spent a lot of time getting the best from that. Apparently the 1.3 MJ in the 500 can be pushed up to 111bhp, but they could "only" get 102bhp from mine. I guess the Qubo 75 has a more restrictive exhaust or airbox than the 500? She did say that they removed the DPF from the 500, but the Qubo doesn't have one of those, does it?

Is the engine in the 95 different to the 75, or is it just tuned?

Good point about the anti-roll bars.
The Qubo is mostly used with just one or two people on-board. The rear seats have never been used for passengers, and I have thought about removing then to save weight - they are extremely heavy!
I do sometimes carry large objects in the back (with the seats folded down), but they are generally quite light.

Softer/lower springs, and thicker anti-roll bar(s) might be the best for me. The ride is currently quite jittery (stiff springs) and it rolls a lot (thin anti-roll bar?).

I really need to find a tuning specialist with Fiat experience.
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I've never heard of Celtic Tuning but they seem to have given you good service. Most high performance versions of FIAT group diesels make 85 to 90 HP per liter. That means that with 111 HP from a 1.248 liter engine he's getting 89 HP per liter and that's in line with factory tuning. At 102 HP, you're getting 81.7 HP per liter and that's certainly up there. There could be differences beyween your engine and his. If his 500 is from 2011 or newer, it's Euro 5 and yours is Euro 4 if built before 2011. Different intake and exhaust tracts can mean the difference or at least part of it. Also, if your Qubo is from 2010 or earlier, it does not have a DPF. I believe it was standard on Euro 4 95 HP engines and on all Euro 5 engines. Another possibile reason for holding it to 102 HP has to do with torque. You may have lost more torque than it was worth from 103 HP. Given the Qubo is larger and heavier than a 500, the overall performance would have been less even though the horsepower was more.

The 95 HP engine is normally a tuned version of the 75 but there's one important difference. The 95 HP version has a variable vane turbo while the 75 HP version has fixed vanes. The biggest difference comes at the Euro 4/Euro 5 split with the Euro 5 engines being much better at low RPM, especially the 95 HP edition.

If you've never removed the rear seats up to now, you'll be in for a nasty surprise. The seat attachment points are large and in the way. Worse yet, you don't realize this with the seats folded. The floor is not flat with them being there and no way will you be able to stretch out and take a nap . Also, it seems that the seats are holding the rear interior trim in place. Mine's got a lot of squeaks and other disagreeable noises since I removed the seats. A bit of good news is they're not all that heavy. I'm an older person and had no real trouble getting mine out of the car. I think that someone on here mentioned 47 KG for the pair. I have the optional collapsing front passenger seat. The seat back doesn't just fold down but the entire seat lowers to give about the same laod height as the rest of the cargo area. If you have the standard seat, I'd be curious to know if the back folds forward or not.

I don't know what the figures are for the front track of the Punto 3 compared to the Qubo. If they are within a few millimeters the Punto anti-roll bar mentioned earlier may do the job. If it's a bit too long, that's an easy fix but there,s no cure for a bit too short. If not, good luck on finding a different one. I'd like to get mine lowered a bit as climbing in and out of the back seats is a bit of a stretch for me because of the box section of the frame at the side doors. I'm willing (for the moment) to live with the bouncy ride because it contributes in an important way to the excellent (for the type of vehicle) handling.
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