Technical Urgent rear trailing arm bearing question

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Technical Urgent rear trailing arm bearing question

westernlancia

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Hi folks

I haven't posted for a while because I've been away, but I have 2 Lancia Ys from 1996 and 2000, and they are identical mechanically to a Mk1 Punto. Or at least, until today I hadn't come across anything that was different, in 10 years of buying parts for them and telling the parts bloke they were Puntos. However, today I have had a problem - not sure if it is because they are different or because I have the wrong part (from eBay).

Here's my problem. I am changing the rear trailing arm bearings on the 1996 60HP one, using the absolutely excellent guide in the tech section of this forum. I am following the instructions very closely, and I just got to the bit where you insert the plastic spacer between the bearings, having removed the old ones. When I removed the spacer and put the new one in, I found that the new one wouldn't fit - it is just under a centimetre too long. Alarmed, I looked at the metal tube that goes inside it - and that's too long too, but the same amount. And so is the bolt.

The parts all fit nicely into the bearing housings (I have already installed one of the bearing races and it's the same size as the old one), but the diameter of the hole in the trailing arm mountings on the car is also too small, because the bolt is 1-2mm larger in diameter.

My question is, has anyone else had this problem, and if so, was it O.K. to do what I am hoping to do, which is simply cut down the plastic and metal spacers and drill out the holes in the mountings on the car to take the larger bolts. I don't think I even need to cut the bolt down, because there is room for it to stick out a bit more at the back. I'd have to cut the plastic spacer in two and take 1cm out of the middle, so it would be in 2 parts, but I don't see that that would be a problem (would it?)

And does anyone know what's happened? My guess is that either I have been sent a beefed-up one from a different model (Sporting? Mk2?) or simply that they got changed in the lifetime of the car.

Anyone else had success or failure trying to modify them as I intend - and would I just better buying a new pair (that's slightly fraught as I am in France and the deadline for the French MoT retest is next week, so there isn't really time to order a new pair)? I am also worried that I might just end up with another pair of wrong ones...

I have taken some pix of the parts, but I am having trouble uploading them...

Thanks in advance...

Alan
 
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try this -

on a PC ..

use SEARCH in "advanced"

then you can search for sole terms ( "rear arm"..or similar)
and in JUST the Punto 1 section..:worship:

what's the issue with pics.. :confused:
use the "paperclip icon" at the top of an advanced reply,

not only should it work well - but the pics will be there forever .. much better than through a hosting site,

Charlie
 
try this -
then you can search for sole terms ( "rear arm"..or similar)
and in JUST the Punto 1 section..:worship:

what's the issue with pics.. :confused:
use the "paperclip icon" at the top of an advanced reply,
Charlie

Thanks... I'd already searched the forum for 'trailing arms' and checked each reply, and I seem to be the first to have had this problem!

Pix - the issue seems to have been that they were too big and my server kept timing out - I was using the paper clip but it wasn't working. Now I have shrunk them and it looks as if they are going to upload, so fingers crossed. And if anyone has had this problem I'd be very glad to hear...

Cheers and thanks again

Alan
 

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By the looks of things, you have the wrong parts. Immediately clear by the pictures that the new parts are too big.

Yes, I can see that they're too big - what I am trying to work out is if it is O.K. to trim them, as it would be pretty easy. I can't see that cutting down the spacer tube and drilling out the hole in the trailing arm mountings would be a bad thing, but I wondered if anyone had tried it before.
 
Yes, I can see that they're too big - what I am trying to work out is if it is O.K. to trim them, as it would be pretty easy. I can't see that cutting down the spacer tube and drilling out the hole in the trailing arm mountings would be a bad thing, but I wondered if anyone had tried it before.

I cannot see that Shortening would be too big an issue, but Drilling Out..

potentially - that means you cannot go back if you hit an unexpected snag

have you compared part numbers ( and revisions..)
http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...=3&WINDOW_ID=1&SGRP_COD=5&SGS_COD=0&DRW_NUM=1
there appear to be 2 x options where I'm looking..,:confused:

I'd be tempted to flush out the old parts, repack them all and get the MOT / inspection done while I get the best longlasting option sorted.

if returning the current parts is a non-starter, then maybe shorten the 2 x bushing parts, and "sleeve the sleeve",
or maybe get the threaded portion reduced in Diameter, and the old size thread put on ( shoulder bolt) to the original bolts lengths,
https://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_shoulder_bolts.aspx?nv=rel

Charlie
 
I cannot see that Shortening would be too big an issue, but Drilling Out..

potentially - that means you cannot go back if you hit an unexpected snag

have you compared part numbers ( and revisions..)
http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...=3&WINDOW_ID=1&SGRP_COD=5&SGS_COD=0&DRW_NUM=1
there appear to be 2 x options where I'm looking..,:confused:

I'd be tempted to flush out the old parts, repack them all and get the MOT / inspection done while I get the best longlasting option sorted.

if returning the current parts is a non-starter, then maybe shorten the 2 x bushing parts, and "sleeve the sleeve",
or maybe get the threaded portion reduced in Diameter, and the old size thread put on ( shoulder bolt) to the original bolts lengths,
https://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_shoulder_bolts.aspx?nv=rel

Charlie

Thanks Charlie - this is most helpful. I'm not great at deciphering the eper, but as I read it there are 2 lefts (7769900 and 46553689) and 2 rights (7769901 and 46553691). It doesn't seem to give any info about them except the weights, which are different. However, the one I think I need (46553689/91) is over a kilo lighter than the other one - I know this is the whole arm and not just the bearing, but circumstantially it does seem to say there are two. I know I don't need 7769900/01, because that's the one I've already got, and it's bigger than my old one. Here it is at mister-auto, who are a great source of cheap parts, although I got mine at eBay UK http://www.mister-auto.com/kit-de-reparation-bras-triangulaire/delphi-td532w_g772_a089TD532W.html

This is the one that's too big - it gives the dimensions, and it's 215mm long, which is the bigger size.

So my guess is that at some point they beefed it up, and that mine is the early one (it's a really early car). Unfortunately they don't seem to be selling the smaller kind, and I am with you all the way about drilling out the holes in the trailing arm carriers - that's what I was worried about. The best solution seems to be to do what you suggest - in fact I can do slightly better, because I can use all the new bearings and housings - they are the same on both kits. The only parts I'll have to re-use are the plastic and metal spacers and the long bolt and nut. The metal spacer is fine; the plastic one is a bit mangled at the end where I had to cut it a bit to get it out, but I could probably re-use it if I silicon the back - I think that all it does is keep the grease in, and that will take a pretty long time to leak out. Unfortunately I had to cut the nut and bolt to get them off, but I think I can probably get new ones at a bolt supplier here, and that's probably the best course of action. I have only stripped one side so far, so I will take special care to make sure the nut and bolt the other side are reusable when I do that one.

As most of the kits on sale (and they are the same for Puntos and Ypsilons, as usual) are the bigger kind, I think the change was probably fairly early in the production run. That would also explain why I seem to be the only person to have had this problem.

Thanks for all your help (and everyone else's too) - I'll keep you posted on how it goes...
 
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Hi,
TBF - I've never done a rear arm rebuild..

I saw the taper roller bearings in your pic,

but was wondering if the "Teflon Tube" was also load bearing.


good luck, and do let us know how it goes ,and what solutions you eventually settle on,

cheers,
Charlie
 
Hi,
TBF - I've never done a rear arm rebuild..

I saw the taper roller bearings in your pic,

but was wondering if the "Teflon Tube" was also load bearing.


good luck, and do let us know how it goes ,and what solutions you eventually settle on,

cheers,
Charlie

No, pretty sure the Teflon tube isn't load bearing (we'd be in trouble if it were, because it's not very strong!). The taper rollers are lodged very firmly against a metal rim each side, so it's definitely not holding those apart. The metal spacer runs in it but is kept centred by the bearings, so the Teflon tube doesn't do that either. The only functions I can see that it can perform are a grease seal and transfer conduit - it has ridges along it which I think the grease is supposed to run in. And it's not all that effective at that, because mine and most of the ones people have posted in the forum are dry as a bone and have obviously been running like that for years. I haven't damaged it too badly, so it should be reusable. My biggest worry is whether I can reuse the nut and bolt, because I'm not sure I can get those in the right timescale. We cut the end off at a diagonal, so the nut is knackered, but an M12 nyloc nut should be easy to get. But an M12 110-105mm bolt would be a lot harder, so I am hoping there's enough thread on it to reuse it...
 
The dimensions of the metal spacer are critical because it stops the bearings being crushed , or being too loose, when through bolt tightened.
So reusing old ones good plan.
 
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