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Old 01-11-2016   #31
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Re: Low mileage 60S

Quote Originally Posted by Steve gt View Post
I will be on the drive for a few weeks yet , so we can arrange picking it up then no probs . Sounds like a good trip ... roll on retirement

Well the dreaded fuel leak came back!
My local garagiste thought he had identified it & "glued" it together. All seemed well...no leak & off I went top Barnsley to look at a ZA Magnette for a friend in Germany (very nice car by the way, he bought it!). While ther I parked on a steep upwards slope & Guess.... a leak from the same place (where a 25mm corrugated pipe loops under by what looks like a vertical vent/drain?? (again about 25mm) I put it down to the parking & set off for Newark to pick up a trailer (nervous about running out of fuel. however the "leak" stopped & I collected the trailer & back home to Stratford on Avon.
I have been running around for the past 3 weeks, with no problem apart from an occasional whiff of petrol.
As I have to go to Felixtowe with the trailer to pick up an Austin Seven (don't ask!) at the end of next week I went & filled up today and....YES... back came the leak.
It seems to drip while going along (a bit, but maybe not all the time....I can't see!) but when I stop it drips about 15mm into a Jam jar in about 10 mins & then stops.
So what is it? As it doesn't seem to be under great pressure (gravity?) is it from the return system before it gets to the tank? I wonder? Could the amount be what is in the system until it drains away? Is the anti- reflux valve leaking, or it just a split pipe somewhere near the tank filling up the corrugated 25mm pipe? (which does WHAT?)
nothing to do with this, but there is a gasket round the top of the Weber single point injection body & it is split....where can I get one?
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Old 01-11-2016   #32
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Re: Low mileage 60S

sounds like you have been busy David , I still have the 60s of you want it no probs , it my have the parts you need although the fuel tank is off the car as I am saving it in case mine rusts out but all the fuel lines are there .
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Old 02-11-2016   #33
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Re: Low mileage 60S

Well here is a diagram from the eper of the fuel tank setup..



I presume the pipe you keep referring to to no.4 - that is the tank breather for when you are filling up, you see it goes across and joins a small pipe on the filler neck. That is to release pressure as you fill up with fuel at the petrol station..

Without seeing it its really hard to say anything at all for certain. But my first thoughts would be, what has been used to repair that pipe, is said product going to last with permanent contact with petrol cause not alot of glues are..

After that I would be checking the seals at the end of that pipe are both still there, easy to lose one of them when the pipe is removed - so check they are still there and are they still looking ok and not all hard and cracked?? These bits are still available new from fiat i believe but a very quick google came up with some cheap on Italian ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/7628223-PAKK...-/360857289680

I'd next look at the little valve (no.18) and its seal (no.20) - Now I have never messed with this and not 100% what its for - relieving pressure when ca is not running perhaps? It doesn't really matter though, due to where it is I can see that leaking if the car was full of fuel and on a slight angle - check the seal for that. Again quick search is bring both these parts up on german and/or italian ebay but i stress I am not looking hard just throwing the part numbers into google. My eper though (2014 version) is saying all 3 bits I have mentioned are still available new.

part numbers:
valve (no. 18) - 46415700
valve seal (no. 20) - 7700824
breather pipe seals (no. 22) - 7628223

All this is a pain I'll grant you as you kinda need to drop the tank to check any of it and then refit and fill up to test it properly. So really the easiest thing to do is to replace anything that you are even remotely suspect about. Sadly the breather pipe itself is not available new but i'm sure its possible to find a suitable hose thats fuel resistant to replace it rather than try fix it - if you have a search around for flexible fuel filler hose you will prob find something suitable i should think - something like this http://www.asap-supplies.com/seaflow...el-hose-305825. You will of course have to get a actual measurement of the pipe ID first though.
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Old 02-11-2016   #34
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Re: Low mileage 60S

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Old 02-11-2016   #35
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Re: Low mileage 60S

Quote Originally Posted by Steve gt View Post
sounds like you have been busy David , I still have the 60s of you want it no probs , it my have the parts you need although the fuel tank is off the car as I am saving it in case mine rusts out but all the fuel lines are there .
Thanks for that info....I will be back when the fuel leak is sorted.....!
D
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Old 02-11-2016   #36
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Re: Low mileage 60S

Quote Originally Posted by Punto1cab View Post
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gonna assume that was an accidental post lol
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Old 02-11-2016   #37
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Quote Originally Posted by blu73 View Post
gonna assume that was an accidental post lol
It was!
What I was trying to say (& may have somehow!) was thanks very much, you are a star! All I have to do is get at it & fix it! There is a valve- in the return circuit- may be called an "anti-reflux valve" according to Haynes! If you ever suffer from indigestion, you will know what it does! A non-return valve might be more understandable!
the valve 18 is shown on Haynes, but as part of a complex EVAP system with solenoids, tanks & ending up at the vapour trap on the FI body!
I am pretty sure the problem will be with the return pipe somewhere as it seems to dump about the same amount of fuel each time, and as it doesn't seem to happen when running for a distance, that suggests to me that it is not "overfuelling" when running.
Your diagram & leads are very helpful...thanks again
David
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Old 02-11-2016   #38
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Re: Low mileage 60S

Quote Originally Posted by Punto1cab View Post
It was!
What I was trying to say (& may have somehow!) was thanks very much, you are a star! All I have to do is get at it & fix it! There is a valve- in the return circuit- may be called an "anti-reflux valve" according to Haynes! If you ever suffer from indigestion, you will know what it does! A non-return valve might be more understandable!
the valve 18 is shown on Haynes, but as part of a complex EVAP system with solenoids, tanks & ending up at the vapour trap on the FI body!
I am pretty sure the problem will be with the return pipe somewhere as it seems to dump about the same amount of fuel each time, and as it doesn't seem to happen when running for a distance, that suggests to me that it is not "overfuelling" when running.
Your diagram & leads are very helpful...thanks again
David
Looking again at your diagram I cannot see the overfuelling return system?
D
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Old 02-11-2016   #39
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Re: Low mileage 60S

yep different diagram, I should have thought of the EVAP when i posted - clearly its all that could be when you think lol.

Here you go:
The lines


Charcoal Canister typ1


Charcoal Canister typ2


Do remember though that this system is designed for vapours, they build up in the canister and then the valve opens under certain conditions to send it through the engine to be burnt, there should be no actual fuel in this system only fuel vapour. So if its leaking fuel here then it can only be the valve itself has failed and letting fuel pass through it or the seal for the valve on the tank. I mean you should be able to take the pipe from the canister to the throttle body off completely and you would still not get any dripping fuel out (or shouldn't) - it will stink of fuel though and is bad for environment which is why it goes to be burnt by engine; it has nothing to do with actual fuelling, its just how the pressure in the tank equalises.
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Last edited by blu73; 02-11-2016 at 11:56.
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Old 02-11-2016   #40
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Re: Low mileage 60S

Quote Originally Posted by blu73 View Post
yep different diagram, I should have thought of the EVAP when i posted - clearly its all that could be when you think lol.

Here you go:
The lines


Charcoal Canister typ1


Charcoal Canister typ2


Do remember though that this system is designed for vapours, they build up in the canister and then the valve opens under certain conditions to send it through the engine to be burnt, there should be no actual fuel in this system only fuel vapour. So if its leaking fuel here then it can only be the valve itself has failed and letting fuel pass through it or the seal for the valve on the tank. I mean you should be able to take the pipe from the canister to the throttle body off completely and you would still not get any dripping fuel out (or shouldn't) - it will stink of fuel though and is bad for environment which is why it goes to be burnt by engine; it has nothing to do with actual fuelling, its just how the pressure in the tank equalises.
Thanks again! I think I can discount the EVAP (and not disturb it unless there is clear evidence of leaks there!) I will concentrate on the overflow. The breather pipe is where the fuel ends up, but liquids rarely come from where they appear! There is I am sure an overflow pipe from the Injector body, back to the tank via this anti reflux valve & then into the tank, but I cannot see it on the diagrams I think it is the pipe return line on the fuel pump and that must return fuel straight to the tank.
SO that removes the return fuel option as the culprit because the connections at the fuel pump appear perfect.... back to the seals at the top of the tank for the filler & overflow.....!
David
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Old 02-11-2016   #41
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Re: Low mileage 60S

the fuel system is a return system on this car.. So fuel goes down a line from the pump housing, down the car to the throttle body, past the injector to a regulator, and the regulator holds the pressure right across the injector and lets the surplus fuel past down the return line back to the tank, it enters back through the top of the fuel pump housing. It doesn't go through the EVAP system at all.. The EVAP has a vacuum hose that goes to the rear of the throttle body and its controlled via the little valve on the canister which is just an open/close switch controlled via the ecu. The fuel flow and return pipes could very well be a leaking point - there is an access panel under the rear seats in most fiats, been too long for to remember if the mk1 has it but i would bet money it does.. Unlike my suzuki which you have to drop the whole tank off to service anything there. The pipes are quick release type but you unless there is evidence of a leak around the fuel pump housing and the hoses i wouldn't expect its there but no harm pulling them pipes off and having a good look for cracks in the bit they clip onto - i have seen a few cracked/snapped there but usually its really obvious as there is pressure in them pipes when the system primes and engine running.

I have posted a in the mk1 punto guides section a little diagram that shows what every part of the throttle body is and where all the pipes go if you are interested
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Old 02-11-2016   #42
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Re: Low mileage 60S

Quote Originally Posted by blu73 View Post
the fuel system is a return system on this car.. So fuel goes down a line from the pump housing, down the car to the throttle body, past the injector to a regulator, and the regulator holds the pressure right across the injector and lets the surplus fuel past down the return line back to the tank, it enters back through the top of the fuel pump housing. It doesn't go through the EVAP system at all.. The EVAP has a vacuum hose that goes to the rear of the throttle body and its controlled via the little valve on the canister which is just an open/close switch controlled via the ecu. The fuel flow and return pipes could very well be a leaking point - there is an access panel under the rear seats in most fiats, been too long for to remember if the mk1 has it but i would bet money it does.. Unlike my suzuki which you have to drop the whole tank off to service anything there. The pipes are quick release type but you unless there is evidence of a leak around the fuel pump housing and the hoses i wouldn't expect its there but no harm pulling them pipes off and having a good look for cracks in the bit they clip onto - i have seen a few cracked/snapped there but usually its really obvious as there is pressure in them pipes when the system primes and engine running.

I have posted a in the mk1 punto guides section a little diagram that shows what every part of the throttle body is and where all the pipes go if you are interested
Thanks again! I will let you know how it goes ...or doesn't!
D
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Old 02-11-2016   #43
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Smile Re: Low mileage 60S

Quote Originally Posted by Punto1cab View Post
Thanks again! I will let you know how it goes ...or doesn't!
D
The simple things are the best! On looking hard at the concertina tube it appears to have a hole in it! Good news the seal/gasket is available ex stock from local Fiat dealer (0.98 each!) Bad news, none in the UK. Good News he gave me it's Part No (7761107) and that can be bought on ebay Italy for under 20 plus unknown postage.
So, patch it up with gloop until the bits arrive!
DGH
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Old 03-11-2016   #44
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Re: Low mileage 60S

which seal do you mean there?? the pipe itself is 7761107 and comes with the seals from either end according to my eper, can't imagine the pipe is 98 pence.. anyhoo, my eper so no longer supplied so whatever you find will be new old stock.

anyhow, glad you found the leak, i see the pipe on italian ebay, just the one - lets hope they will send to the uk!! best of luck - i recognise the seller username, feel like i might have bought something from them before for my panda so hopefully all will get sorted.

And if they won't send you know its that pipe now and just some flexible flue line like i linked before would do to sort this out too
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Old 06-11-2016   #45
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Quote Originally Posted by Steve gt View Post
sounds like you have been busy David , I still have the 60s of you want it no probs , it my have the parts you need although the fuel tank is off the car as I am saving it in case mine rusts out but all the fuel lines are there .
Hi, I have found a new overflow pipe in Italy with seals, but the seller doesn't do sales outside Italy!! I can get a friend in Italy to buy it etc, but that is getting complicated!
So if you have this crinkly pipe (goes from the bottom of the filler to the top of the tank, and can get it off ok & it is intact I will have it! It is about 1" / 1.5" diameter.
I can get the seals locally & change the clips to generic jubilee type. And I will have your backseat to make it worth every ones time! I can come up at almost anytime to suit you! It may be easier than using post or a carrier, unless you have a tame carrier?
Hear from you soon!
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