Hi, bit of back story I've recently been forced to sell my beloved classic Panda due to illness and being unable to drive as I had nowhere to store it. I've now been car less for about 2.5 months and its driving me mad. In the past month my sister has moved to a house with a garage which she has agreed she will let me use so I plan to buy a Punto that needs a bit of work and slowly fix it up to my ability (as I'm currently doing nothing due to my illness) until I am back to health and driving again.

/Boring background story over,
I've always liked the mk1 Punto, we've had a couple of mk2's in the family and whilst I've liked them I've preferred the mk1 so I intend to buy one and slowly work on it to bring it back to its former glory (hopefully) since they're cheap as chips as they stand

So here come the questions,
what am I to look for with a mk1 Punto specifically? Obviously they're getting on a bit now in age (mind not as old as my Panda was) so there must be some common issues that the community know about? Do they have common rust places? Is it a concern or are they pretty resilient to rust (this is my main problem as I cannot weld or do anything bodywork really so wouldn't be able to repair rust myself)
Common suspension issues?
What are used parts like for Mk1's? The mk2 has been pretty easy to get bits for when needed, how does the Mk1 compare?

Another question I have is what engine to go for, I know my way around the FIRE engine quite well having owned 2 and worked on about 5 different FIRE powered cars, my Grande Punto was the 1.4 8v and my Panda was the early 750cc 8v FIRE, both were easy to work on although I've only really done the basics like servicing and gasket changes really. I'm looking at either the 85 16v or the 90, theres a nice 90 for sale currently that interests me but the 90 seems to get a bad rep from people due to the old design but to be honest I'm interested in doing something a little different from the FIRE engines I'm used to, is the 90 really that bad?

I did search before writing this lengthy post (sorry ) but I could only find threads that date back quite a few years when the mk1 wasn't really very old yet so might not have developed issues (such as the rust I'm all too scared of) yet.

Thanks in advance for any help and sorry for writing what looks like basically a short story

Good luck with your search. The main issue to look out for is rust and you should find plenty of threads dealing with that issue here.
My advice would be don't be afraid of the 90. We have a 1994 90 ELX Cabrio which we have owned for 16 years. The only mechanical issue we have had is from the cam sensor (recent issue with fuel relay turned out to be connector to the cam sensor). That has now been sorted. Having owned both a 1.2 FIRE and the 1.6, I have no complaints with the 1.6. It is smooth, has good low down torque and is willing to rev. My only complaint is the gearing, which by modern standards is a bit low, with the engine revving at about 3,000 revs at 70mph. The other advantage with the 1.6 is that the spark plugs are at the front with the exhaust manifold at the rear, making access for servicing easier. It is also liable to leak oil a bit from the cam cover, but this should be simple to fix. The other thing to be aware of is that the ECU and most electronics are of GM origin.

I've got a 90 ELX Cabrio too, which took me a while to restore back to it's original condition.

I don't think I would own this engine on a non cabrio car since it's special.
I have 2 other 75SX puntos with the FIRE engine and I never had major problems with it. I really don't feel big differences while driving both 90 and 75 Engines. FIRE ones are very light compared to the 90 one.

My suggestion for you is to get it only if it's very and serviced car, and if you have the time to wait because finding parts could take up to 1-2 weeks (I'm using ebay), and even if it's services, things are getting old due age.
I would just get a GT instead.

I started working this car by myself with only knowledge of changing gaskets and minor stuff like thermostat, hoses etc.

Advantages like renaultvation said, are the spark plugs that on the front of the engine, so easy to replace them, and also the starter is at the front.
Other than that, unlike the FIRE engines, when the cam belt snaps you'll have a damage. A thing to be worried for.
And the ECU which sits under the heater matrix, so if that leakes you'll be in trouble.

On the ELX I've got an hydraulic steering wheel, so that could be a nice upgrade and I would definitely look for one if it's not a 1.6 version. although I changed all the rubber pipes and gaskets due age. very hard to get those!

After the restoration I did, changing all the sensors, fixing wires and stuff, the car serve me for 1 year without touching or fixing anything.

Here are some pics of the retoration I did.
Alternator is a pain to replace for example, but other stuff are ok, it's a big engine and you won't have so much room to work on unlike the FIRE engines which you could see all the engine bay.

Hey Dom! :wave:

Rust is pretty much the enemy here, my advice is simple - find one thats really solid and don't worry too much about which spec it is. I personally would be going to look at any 75/85/90/GT engined cars that appear to be decent. From working on my old GT i would say the main issue working on that engine (same family as 90) is mainly access issues, everything is just harder to get at than in a FIRE. At risk of starting people off grumbling, i prefer the 85 to the 90 but its just a personal preference thing.

End of the day, the mk1 is getting scarce - i think its much easier to find a classic panda in decent condition now than a mk1 punto despite the panda being way older. So yeah, look for something solid and go from there, sills and floors are the first place to look, then after that same as most older cars, inner arches, boot floor... But generally a rusty punto will have rusty floors and sills.

I would say that if a nice 90 comes up then don't be afraid to to for it. It's the most interesting and rare choice... the ultimate incarnation of the classic 70s Fiat SOHC motor that powered millions of 128s, X/19s, Stradas, Tipos and Tempras. With the MPI injection it finally released a nice grunty 90 HP.

It was used in the"posh" ELX, the Cabrio and the first Sportings, and although the 1.25 16V FIRE that replaced it was more modern and efficient, I still like the old-school idea of a biggish engine in a compact car.

Thanks for all the info guys
Rust is my main woe so I'll mainly look for that if I do go and look at one.
renaultvation Helpful info I won't be as afraid of the 1.6 now, gearing is better than cars I've owned to date if its at 3000rpm at 70, my Panda used to turn 4000rpm at an indicated 72mph and my Grande Punto was around 3500 from memory. Cam cover gaskets leaking are pretty common on FIRE engines from experience, I've changed a few of these
chesh Thanks for pictures, I believe (although I may be wrong) all UK mk1 Punto's had hydraulic power steering. I won't be going for a GT because most examples seem pretty abused and the ones that aren't demand higher prices than I am willing to pay for a car I might not even keep for very long, its more of just a project.
blu73 Hi Chris :wave: Didn't realise you were the mod in these parts Obviously you'd prefer an 85 because you've presumably had about 10 in Cinq's and Sei's
bluejohn125 Thanks for further encouragement not to be scared of the 90, I also kinda like the idea of it but probably just because I've only owned little engined cars (750cc, 1.4 and a 1.1 Turbo (by far my favourite engine, shame the rest of that car was so dull) and I feel like some change :devil:

Not all mk1 have pas here no. But those that do are hydraulic. It's good pas compared to alot of crappy modern electric ones. But it's not really required, bout the same as char from a weight point of view without ?

blu73 said:

Not all mk1 have pas here no. But those that do are hydraulic. It's good pas compared to alot of crappy modern electric ones. But it's not really required, bout the same as char from a weight point of view without ?

Click to expand...

what about fuel consumption on non electric pas

what about it...?

I made a bit of a mistake with the gearing and it is closer to 4,000 revs at 70mph. Quite good for getting to that speed though!

blu73 said:

what about it...?

Click to expand...

isnt it higher than electric?

not something i have ever thought about or looked into.... the engine is turning an extra pump so yeah i guess but its negligible really. And on the other side of that, more electrical current drawn lower mpg too and on a car with electric PAS the thing drawing more power than anything else will be the steering, hence when the battery is dying one of the first indicators is pas failure or warning light.

The extra feel you get through a hydraulic system massively outweighs the downsides of it when compared to electric if you like driving. Which is why a brand new mclaren has hydraulic steering and not pas - its all about driving feel and experience so has to be hydraulic

Really if you are worried about mpg differences between the 2 systems then just forget cars, eat your weetabix and run everywhere.

From further searching for examples for sale I've also discovered the earlier models with the 1.6 tend to have a better interior (IMO) than the later (I presume the 1.2 85 replaced the 90) 1.2 85's... This may sway the 90 slightly more although I suppose if you found a good interior is a scrapyard it could be swapped into an 85

I can only speak for the Cabrio, but in my opinion the interior of the 1.6 90 ELX is a much nicer place than the later models. The only wear you will find is on the seat piping on the edge.

Did the 1.6 Cabrios have a wood effect dash or was this an after market fitting?

digger58 said:

Did the 1.6 Cabrios have a wood effect dash or was this an after market fitting?

Click to expand...

Probably after market.
As said, the 90 ELX interior design is much nicer than all the other models.

This is from a 90 Cabrio:







Unlike 85 16V versions with cheap fabric look:



Or S versions that has only plastic head support on the seats, and without center console:

interiors look same as later models to me tbh.. ok the cabbie clearly has different stuff completely in the rear... but the front looks the same as a later sporting or GT, just different materials - I'll be honest, i can't remember if the sporting has the centre console (the bit between the dash and gear stick) but the GT has. And again the sporting has different fabric to the GT, and again the GT3s had a specific GT3 fabric. The GT also has a really nice leather steering wheel and gear stick which as far as i know no other models had (i've not been in every model though!!)

But I come back to my original statement of this thread, what good is a nice plush steering wheel or a seat with fabric you prefer if there is loads of rot everywhere... Get a solid car and you are away, everything (and i mean everything) from one punto swaps into another. I mean you could buy a 55s, the bottom of the bottom and you could make it a 90, or a GT, or a 85 with any of the interiors options you want (assuming you can find the one you like lol). But a good place to start if doing stuff like that would be to buy a rusty GT, doesn't cost alot and has alot of goodies a lower model doesn't have (seats, door cards with speaker pods, centre console, gear stick, steering wheel, bigger better brakes, rear disc brakes, possibly wheels, wide mouth front bumper with headlight washers and pipes, they have different better headlights, the suspension maybe depending on donor and what car you buy - could prob go on if i spent a while thinking, but you get the jist, the GT wasn't just a mk1 with a turbo engine, it really was the top spec model with the most amount of toys)

Quick question for you cabbie owners though, just for my curiosity - does the drivers chair go up and down like a GT one or is it fixed? I do really like the fabric used on Chesh's first pics, thats a new fabric on me that one.

Quick answer: No the driver's seat does not go up and down. It does have retracting seatbelts in the event of an accident, which I think means they have a small explosive charge which requires careful handling if you are messing about with the seats.

I've upgraded my cabrio with a GT3's sterring wheel, leather GT gearknob + headlight washers and angel eyes:

(seat fabric is covered)





I wish I'd have leather seats as well, some GT's came with them


But there's no end to the upgrades ^^

Thanks for all the info and further pictures guys, very helpful
A 90 ELX has popped up cheap only an hour away so might go have a look, only problem is getting it home