This is my son's 1998 Punto S 60 which has given us good service since purchase in 2008 and after sorting head gasket problem with the help of this forum.
It is usually a very good starter, fires up on first rotation. He left it in my drive for two weeks while away on holiday and on his return it just will not start, hardly even a "flutter". (Note the car has often been left unused for a few weeks and only problem was ever the battery, since replaced)
Battery soon went down so jumped from my car and then turning over very fast, tried spraying "easy start" into air inlet and disconnected/reconnected every electrical socket which looked like having something to do with the ignition circuit, no improvement.
So what now, is it electrical or fuel?
Difficult to check spark because on my own and can find no way to turn over engine from inside the engine bay, will have to wait until I have help.
Intend to access carburettor tomorrow to check for fuel.
Advice required :-
If no spark where should I start to look.
If no fuel where should I start to look.

Ps my hunch is electrical, cannot believe a mechanical problem can develop while car stationary (but also hard to understand why an electrical fault can develop while car stationary)

did you try bump start yet

No, because I assume jump starting was as good and maybe better than bump starting. The engine turns over quite fast and there is plenty of spare juice for the spark.
Is there any advantage to bump starting which I had not thought of?

turning over fast but not firing, got enough gas inside?
plug it to computer to see if any error is stored maybe it will point to right direction

Would love to plug into computer but have no idea where to start.
Can you help?

Pauljoanss said:

Would love to plug into computer but have no idea where to start.
Can you help?

Click to expand...

program is free, only thing you need to buy is either obd2 bluetooth adapter or usb obd2 cable costs few squid from ebay and you also need laptop or android phone

I already have an OBD Bluetooth thingy which I use on my Focus, it simply plugs in directly under the dashboard, the socket looks a bit like a scart connector. I then use Torque app on Android phone.
But how/where do you connect this on a Mk 1 Punto.

for mk1 you need this 3pin connector which you connect to battery + and - and then with cable to obd2 and laptop

First things first, Is the orange code light going off?

If so, is the fuel pump priming? (turn the key and listen for the buzz from the back of the car), if you cant hear it, remove the fuel line going to the injector, point it into an empty bottle, turn key again and see if fuel comes out.

If no fuel comes out, listen for a single click noise in the engine bay, if this happens then the issue is the fuel pump in the tank, if it's totally dead, then it's likely fuel pump relay (white box in the engine bay)

Assuming all is well there though and you are getting fuel, check for spark, can be done by removing leads and watching at the coil pack as somebody turns it over (if it was one cylinder, it would likely start but just run rough), one lead off each coil pack will be enough. If there is no spark, then the likely issue is the crank sensor, a fairly common issue on the 8v FIRES.

Thanks mrcinquecento.

Cannot see any orange code light at any time, not very confident that all dashboard bulbs are working.

Done the fuel check and all ok, p***ing out.

Done a spark test as best as I can (took out one plug, and held to engine then turned over), no sign of any spark.

Removed TDC sensor, cleaned, disconnected/connected socket and replaced, still no spark.

Do you think it is worth replacing the TDC sensor or anything else I can try. Note because of the age of the car all the electrics are generally in poor condition and a bit oily.
Still very puzzled how a fault can develop when car stationary for 2 weeks.
Regards

take the airbox off the top of the throttle body and look down it while cranking the engine, you should be able to see small amount of fuel pooling on the butterfly while cranking. If not then you have no fuel or spark, this is almost always TDC sensor. If you do have fuel but no spark look at replacing the coils - worth checking spark on the other plugs, could be 1 failed coil and the other is fine.

I had a similar issue with our 1.6 Cabrio recently. I have had issues with the crank sensor and now carry a spare, but this was not the problem. It turned out to be a corroded fuse holder on the ignition circuit (located beneath a screw down cover in the engine compartment). Quick clean up and a new fuse and all seems well again.

Thanks have cleaned up fuse holder but no change.
After reading some other posts have checked and found no voltage on coils.
I am now suspecting the white relay unit which I believe powers up the ignition system and looking for a replacement.
Will post results here.
WHY WHY WHY every thread you read NEVER EVER comes to a conclusion, it is so frustrating to go thro multiple pages of a thread and then it just stops, very inconsiderate.

i suggested that quite some time ago
when a problem gets solved they should add [SOLVED] in brackets at the topic name

like

Engine will not start after 2 weeks standing. [SOLVED]

flisko said:

i suggested that quite some time ago
when a problem gets solved they should add [SOLVED] in brackets at the topic name

like

Engine will not start after 2 weeks standing. [SOLVED]

Click to expand...

you'd have to rely on the OP to do that though, and they are the same people that don't conclude the thread in the first place. You can't expect the mod team to read every single post on every thread and mark something solved, have you seen how big this forum is!
Just consider how long it would take to go through all the old posts to mark them as solved or not, forum is just too big it would take forever.

As it stands I'm pretty sure the OP can change the title of the first post if they want so if you want to start doing that on your threads by all means go for it but its too hard to police.

blu73 said:

you'd have to rely on the OP to do that though, and they are the same people that don't conclude the thread in the first place. You can't expect the mod team to read every single post on every thread and mark something solved, have you seen how big this forum is!
Just consider how long it would take to go through all the old posts to mark them as solved or not, forum is just too big it would take forever.

As it stands I'm pretty sure the OP can change the title of the first post if they want so if you want to start doing that on your threads by all means go for it but its too hard to police.

Click to expand...

op cant edit topic name once its made, they could add edit topic option
going through old posts will take forever with limited manpower but if you read atleast few topics per day, multiple that by 10-20-30 people and you can probably get everything organized in around 1 year

fair enough, its confusing trying to remember how everything works for a normal member, clearly its all a little different for me.

anyhow, lets bring this back on topic..

Get someone to turn the ignition on and off and stand at front and listen for the relay clicking.. Its not totally unheard of for these to fail but its super rare.. Have you checked for fuel when cranking yet?

Unfortunately I am working on my own, but I have disconnected fuel line, turned on ignition and seen fuel flow fast into jam jar. Not actually been able to view into fuel block while cranking.
However I feel this is irrelevant since there is no spark and no voltage on the coils, hence my concentration on the relay. A couple of additional points, the relay should be located under a protective cover, this has never been fitted and the relay white body cover shows a very slight crack, however it does click when I connect the socket with ignition on. But I understand this relay is in fact a double so cannot be sure both have switched and even if they switch then cannot be sure good contact has been made.
Went to local scrap yard looking for spare but no Mk1s and about six Mk2s, so have bought one of eBay for £8, due next Monday.
Meanwhile I am thinking of making links in the relay socket to simulate the switched state, is this risky?
Fortunately this is a second car and no time pressure so I am determined to solve this myself without any expensive garage AND I will report back the solution, unlike many others.

If the relay clicks then yes its not 100% that its working properly but its a good sign.. And there is no protective cover that i know of, its just the white case that is the cover.

When it comes to fuel though all you have done is prove there is fuel pressure, and this the pump has power but not that fuel is getting past the injector... and if the injector isn't firing and there is no spark then its usually the TDC sensor.. If you whip the airbox off you can even just stick you finger in under the injector to feel the petrol being sprayed, you can generally see it pretty easy though.

From memory without looking at wiring diagrams the coils switch on the earth side and this is controlled via the ecu using the TDC signal. Thus if the TDC has failed the ecu won't complete the circuit and thus no spark... Depends how you are measuring it i suppose, but worth remembering that these ecu's pretty much always switch the earth side of a circuit when trying to diagnose stuff.

Thanks blu73 for practical advice.
Ref cover, there is a black plastic cover held in p,ace by two cross head screws which should be in place covering the relay, fuse and another little sensor thing, all part of the ignition circuit, I have it sitting on my bench but never fitted, not sure why.
My understanding (may not be correct) is that when the ignition is turned on the coils should be fed live, the ECU then works in conjuction with the TDC Center to provide pulses which Earth the coils and so provide spark. If this is true then it is a fundamental that the coils must be live before the TDC sensor can work its magic. Yesterday I took a TDC sensor from a MK2 Punto and tried it with no luck, it looked almost the same but cannot be sure it was correct.
Busy doing lots of other things today but quite excited about linking out relay. Have decided best option it to short the relevant terminals on the relay with small wire then plug back into socket, if this makes the coils live then RESULT!
Is this risky??