I own Grande Punto 1.2 Emotional model since Sep 2010.

I am facing brake failure issue

This issue occurs only in low RPM like when you are bring your car from parking where you need to apply 1st and reverse gear couple of times.

or when you are driving in slomly moving traffic where you can't release clutch fully (even in 1st gear) and you need to keep your feet on brake padel to avoid bang into next car. If you face this situation for around 25-30 seconds you will find brake padel very hard anbd brake is failed. You need to press clutch fully in order to get vacuum recreated in brake booster. If you are running on AC , then vaccum takes 5-6 seconds otherwise it takes 2-3 seconds.

Please let me what to do?

kalis said:

I own Grande Punto 1.2 Emotional model since Sep 2010.

I am facing brake failure issue

This issue occurs only in low RPM like when you are bring your car from parking where you need to apply 1st and reverse gear couple of times.

or when you are driving in slomly moving traffic where you can't release clutch fully (even in 1st gear) and you need to keep your feet on brake padel to avoid bang into next car. If you face this situation for around 25-30 seconds you will find brake padel very hard anbd brake is failed. You need to press clutch fully in order to get vacuum recreated in brake booster. If you are running on AC , then vaccum takes 5-6 seconds otherwise it takes 2-3 seconds.

Please let me what to do?

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Hi, firstly id advise you DO NOT drive the car in this condition, as your putting your safety at risk.

my guess is, theres a vacuum leak.. follow the black rigid pipe / hose from the brake servo.. huge black round unit on drivers side.. follow the pipe from there back to the engine check for cracking, splits or kinks in the pipe.

these pipes are quite easily damaged and kink really easily... and if it has any kind of damage such as a kink it will restrict the vacuum from the engine, same if theres any kind of cracking or splits, it will stop the servo building up a proper vacuum... which is why your experiencing hard brakes at lower revs because at lower revs the engine vacuum is less than higher revs.

Thank you. Anymore suggestions.. plz.. i want to get this rectified very soon

kalis said:

Thank you. Anymore suggestions.. plz.. i want to get this rectified very soon

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Have you checked the pipe?

because that is just about the only thing effected by engine RPM that would cause hard brakes... when the servo assistance is not functioning correctly.

if its not the pipe, then only other thing it can be is a defective brake servo unit.. but to be honest unless it is rotten with rust they are normally pretty reliable.

problem seems to be that for some reason or another.. at lower revs, because there is less of a vacuum from the engine its struggling to build up enough vacuum to provide assistance via the servo unit.

so check the pipe first.. then let us know if that is ok or not, there is also a 1 way valve on the pipe which can fail.. at the very end where it goes into the servo... but you cant change that on its own as its part of the pipe.

if there was any other problem with the braking system, such as sticking calipers, or leaking wheel cylinder.. or master cylinder problem, air etc you would not be experiencing the symptoms you are.

normally the symptoms of the above are... spongy brake pedal, brake pedal goes to to the floor, brake pedal you press it down quite a way before it starts to do anything, brake fade, loss of brake fluid, wheels binding.

but your symptoms sound like brakes are working fine.. just at low RPM your having to press hard/stamp on the brake pedal to get them to work... instead of just pressing lightly... but at higher RPM it seems to be fine... which is a symptom of brake servo failure, or a problem with the vacuum pipe between the servo and the engine which is stopping the servo building up a proper vacuum at lower rpm so it cant provide assistance.

ipe is most likely -- a factor will sell you one very cheap. Check that first. If that's not it, master cylinder is the next most likely.

fingers99 said:

ipe is most likely -- a factor will sell you one very cheap. Check that first. If that's not it, master cylinder is the next most likely.

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But what is the relation between master cylinder and engine speed?
theres no physical link.

all a master cylinder is, is 2 pistons inside a tube, and when moved forces the brake fluid down the brake lines under high pressure.

So when they fail, pedal goes spongy, pedal has excessive travel or goes straight to the floor, but normaly the symptoms remain the same at any car speed or engine revs.

But from the symptoms above, the problem is only apparent when the engine is at low revs.


Vacuum assistance is the only thing effected by engine revs/car speed.

I spoke to the workshop manager and asked him to get this cheched, they have replaced the brake booster and checked the cylinder, pipes etc.. still the problem exists and they say that THIS IS AS PER THE PRODUCT SPECS. I'm planning to reach the media and the Consumer COurt.. I'm becoming helpless from FIAT AND THE TEJASWI MOTORS, HYD, AP, INDIA.

Can you suggest me what best can i do to get this solved.

Just ask them to give you a replacement car to test it out and then show them that the two cars do not behave the same. If it is obvious that you are right they should fix it. Since they are professionals they would be more likely to fix it then you can do it.

No relationship at all between master cylinder and engine speed. However, one of my Cinqs developed the strange habit of rolling away on the brakes at a standstill -- otherwise the brakes were fine. A new master cylinder sorted it.

eird brake issues often point to thre m/c.

Incidentally, if relacing the hose, generic old style vacuum hose (generally cloth braided) outlasts the lastic stuff FIAT use.

I have tried 2 cars, even showroom people drove and tried cars and even they observed this behaviour but they the FIAT people are very reluctant to accept it as a PROBLEM WITH THIS MODEL, this try to convenience that THIS IS INTENDED BEHAVIOUR AND AS PER THE SPECS. They tested the vehicles before deliverying.. agian back to square..

Atleast 2011 have to make FAIT to understand customers pain..

Kalis

kalis said:

i have tried 2 cars, even showroom people drove and tried cars and even they observed this behaviour but they the fiat people are very reluctant to accept it as a problem with this model, this try to convenience that this is intended behaviour and as per the specs. They tested the vehicles before deliverying.. Agian back to square..

Atleast 2011 have to make fait to understand customers pain..

Kalis

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any reply to this

kalis said:

any reply to this

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If I were you, I would try another dealer. I would also contact Fiat UK in Slough and advise them of the issue, tell them of the dealer's attitude and ask them to advise you of a more cooperative/knowledgeable dealer in the area. If you are close to Wales, I recommend LC Motors in Cwmbran.

georgios1976 said:

If you are close to Wales, I recommend LC Motors in Cwmbran.

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I think his post sort of implies he is in India, so don't think a trip to Wales is going to be possible! May be wrong of course

Yes, I'm from India.. I'm trying my best to speak to all the senior executives from TATA & FIAT. By this weekend if they don't respond i have approach the local television channel and explained them the problem, i will shoot a video on this and publish in all the blogs, facebook and other social networking sites.