Yesterday I was on a cross country trip in my 2005 1.2 8v, and on the way home it suddenly lost the torque. At the time I had been cruising behind a truck on the motorway for a good hour, at around 2400rpm. Suddenly the engine just dipped to 2200rpm and there was no torque at all. Engine light came on. I pulled into the next rest stop, switched off the engine and straight back on. Pulled out of the rest stop at full throttle and there was no issues at all - except for the engine light remaining on. Caught up with the truck again, and settled into the 2400rpm range again. Every now and then the engine would be hesitant and lose torque, but only for a second or two.
After having had those hesitations, I decided to give it a bit more throttle the last bit home, and accelerated to 3400-4000rpm. It was again hesitant for a second or two just as I reached 3000rpm, but then felt nothing for the last 25-30km home at higher speeds.
The error read out was a fault on coil pack 2, but to me it didn't seem to misfire at any point - so I'm thinking it might be a sensor?

if the error code was coil pack, and it was losing power, what makes you say it was not misfiring?

Because I reckon a misfire would be audible, and it wouldn't result in "no torque" engine behaviour like this.
Regardless, I will measure out both coils and leads sometime this week, just to rule them out.

Misfire may not be audible. You might be thinking of the bang you get from combustion in the exhaust pipe (backfiring), but you don't necessarily get that from misfiring.


If it's intermittent, the engine feels like it's struggling.


Measuring the coil will only show really whether it is open circuit. It won't detect whether the insulation is beginning to break down.


You can swap the coils round, and if the code moves cylinder, then it's the coil pack

Indeed the 'misfire' could just be a weak spark causing incomplete combustion so you get a bang though not very big and you lose power as a result.

When a coil pack fails, suddenly you realise the car aint responding overly well

a few seconds later, my EML came on,

i didnt know what was going on at all..... as i was just loosing an edge off my power but it still ran okay

But then it started to get worse, the coil then fully failed, and i suddenly got NO POWER
As in the engine was struggling to get past 2 cylinders on compression with no bang

its driveable, but its hard work to move off
I limped it some 15miles like this before i called it quits (near enough home that i was recoverable)

Ziggy

It wasn't responsive at all. Foot down at 2200rpm, nothing. Would almost compare it to limp mode, if anything. Unresponsive at that level would indeed result in an audible misfire.
Restart of the car, and it was then only 1-2 seconds, and only behind the truck, at 2400rpm. At 3400 there was nothing. Hence why I'd like to think it's a sensor fault, rather than a coil pack failing.

brinker said:

It wasn't responsive at all. Foot down at 2200rpm, nothing. Would almost compare it to limp mode, if anything. Unresponsive at that level would indeed result in an audible misfire.
Restart of the car, and it was then only 1-2 seconds, and only behind the truck, at 2400rpm. At 3400 there was nothing. Hence why I'd like to think it's a sensor fault, rather than a coil pack failing.

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A code read and live data read out is needed

The misfire isnt audible, u just feel lack of power or the rough running of the engine

Ziggy

Ziggy122 said:

A code read and live data read out is needed

The misfire isnt audible, u just feel lack of power or the rough running of the engine

Ziggy

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The thing is, it wasn't running rough. There was just no response.
I did the fault read out in MES, but stupidly didn't note the code itself. I cleared the log, and have about 200km in the car since, without a hiccup. Guess I'll have to wait until it comes round again.

brinker said:

The thing is, it wasn't running rough. There was just no response.
I did the fault read out in MES, but stupidly didn't note the code itself. I cleared the log, and have about 200km in the car since, without a hiccup. Guess I'll have to wait until it comes round again.

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You need to watch the charge time for the coil packs in the live data read out

I think when mine was happy it was in the 2.3ms to 3.2ms, for it to run okay
BUT
when it failed, it'd take longer, the sparks arriving too late = flat power
And when it failed altogether, it'd be much longer - upto 6ms iirc when i saw mine

been a while since i looked at it


Ziggy

Ziggy122 said:

You need to watch the charge time for the coil packs in the live data read out

I think when mine was happy it was in the 2.3ms to 3.2ms, for it to run okay
BUT
when it failed, it'd take longer, the sparks arriving too late = flat power
And when it failed altogether, it'd be much longer - upto 6ms iirc when i saw mine

been a while since i looked at it


Ziggy

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I logged a 25k drive on Sunday afternoon.. Charge times are ~2.85ms for both coil packs.
Will obviously check the same if/when error shows again.

Error came back yesterday on the way home from work. EML turned itself off over night, but the fault code was logged in MES, and is a P0352. I logged the drive to work this morning, coil pack two have charge times that are consistently above 4.2ms. So new coils it is.
Can anyone point me in direction of reasonably prices Marelli packs in UK? They're 75£/each in Denmark.

Shop4parts.co.uk

There a forum supporters - if you donate, you can then access the 10% off code

however s4p sell champion ones @ 24.28£

Shipping to denmark is 11.95

So thats £60.51 delivered to your door
(NOT INCLUDING ANY BANK EXCHANGE RATES)

Ziggy

I fitted my new coils yesterday, and it seemed fine when I drove it to work this morning.. However, when I was almost home the error suddenly popped out again. EML on. Still get the P0352.
Guess I need to get my hands on a scope to measure the signal output from the ECU.

What else could it be Ziggy122??? :bang:
Read that it might spike the ECU output, damaging the transistor - true? I have a IAW5AFP3 unit.

brinker said:

I fitted my new coils yesterday, and it seemed fine when I drove it to work this morning.. However, when I was almost home the error suddenly popped out again. EML on. Still get the P0352.
Guess I need to get my hands on a scope to measure the signal output from the ECU.

What else could it be Ziggy122??? :bang:
Read that it might spike the ECU output, damaging the transistor - true? I have a IAW5AFP3 unit.

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Not a dmaged cable / connection?

Otherwise yes scope it when reporting the fault

Ziggy

Ziggy122 said:

Not a dmaged cable / connection?

Otherwise yes scope it when reporting the fault

Ziggy

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Will check cables and connections over the weekend.
Sadly I don't have access to a scope. Am considering ordering one from RS components, if it's short term delivery.

brinker said:

Will check cables and connections over the weekend.
Sadly I don't have access to a scope. Am considering ordering one from RS components, if it's short term delivery.

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I believe a test light will do same

Usually though if ecus gone
Its gone, not intermitant

Try swapping coils over to see if fault moves or returns?

Ziggy

When were the plugs and leads changed last?

Looks to me like you're focussing on the coils only because of a fault code and a potential red herring about coil charge time?

Ziggy122 said:

I believe a test light will do same

Usually though if ecus gone
Its gone, not intermitant

Try swapping coils over to see if fault moves or returns?

Ziggy

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Suspecting one of my new coils are faulty?

atom0007 said:

When were the plugs and leads changed last?

Looks to me like you're focussing on the coils only because of a fault code and a potential red herring about coil charge time?

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Plugs were changed 10000km ago.
HT leads - no idea. Probably never.

brinker said:

Suspecting one of my new coils are faulty?


Plugs were changed 10000km ago.
HT leads - no idea. Probably never.

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Its easy to swap and see to make sure new coils aint duff
If they were cheap / white box surprises it maybe the cause

If the ht's have no history
Its first thing id of personally done
Spark plugs 10k/m is short life
But id be looking again to throw them on


Ziggy