Hi,
On my 1.9 JTD 80cv (year 2001) I have now 213.000 km.
If I recall right, I never change the clutch on this car.

I noticed that, when I use a lot the clutch, the gear box starts work in strange manner: difficult to insert a gear, near impossible to put in reverse (a zzzzz sound); also, the clutch starts to bite a little, so if I put in first gear, the car tend to move even if the clutch pedal is full pressed.

I have recently bleed the brakes and the clutch, so I don't think is relate to the hydraulic system...

Can be time for a clutch change ?

Bye.

Hmmm
Difficult to select gears and reverse

Sounds like the clutch is Dragging, ie its not fully disengaging

Which after that mileage, i'd expect it to be a worn out clutch

Ziggy

213k and still on original clutch

It does indeed sound like the clutch is on it's way out, as ziggy said it could be dragging and possibly due to contamination so you might find a leaky engine oil seal or gearbox oil seal within the clutch bell housing which is more common on the 1.9 engine fouling the clutch and causing the issue

In my experience, the Fiat clutches tend to stick rather than slip when they're towards the end of life, exactly the symptoms you are experiencing here. As a 'get-me-home' measure, it's much better than failing to a slipping mode.

Thank you all for the detailed replies.

Now I am quite sure that all clues are pointing in the same direction: clutch's end of life.

In order to prepare myself for the substitution:

I read the fiatforum guide for clutch substitution (1.2 8v); could be similar to my 1.9 jtd 80cv 8v ??

I'm not quite sure if my car has a DMF (double mass flywheel); it seems that DMFs worn out, they are not everlasting things; it seems they loose the capability to absorb shocks.

Valeo claims that his product with a single mass flywheel and shock-absorber springs can do the exact function of the DMF;


(kit valeo for punto 1.9 jtd 80cv: KFS017 EUR 289,00)

what do you think?



I would to know if there are other parts that is better change: I think the release bearing... seals? any trick, test or "watch carefully" ?

It's the first time that I attempt to do that, so....

thanks in advance.

I wouldn't say a guide covering a clutch change on a 1.2 petrol is going to be a very good substitution, gear boxes drive shafts wheel bearings and carriers are all completely different on diesel models, gear box mounts are roughly in the same places though, on the diesel it's all very crowded you'll need to strip out a huge amount of engine components before you can get near the bolts for the gearbox

I changed the clutch on my 1.3 multijet recently with a LUK clutch kit which cost £80~ish I certainly wouldn't expect you to be paying more than a £100 and your car shouldn't have a DMF as only the 1.9multijet (hgt) and the later grande puntos had them installed as standard

I forget on the design for the 1.9jtd but it might be worth fitting a new slave cylinder too, if it's the type that is installed in the bell housing and is fitted around the gearbox input shaft, otherwise if it was to fail a year down the line it's all got to come apart again, a full clutch kit will have the thrust bearing included definitely change this

If this is your first time fitting a clutch,
Do some 'research first. also make sure youve got plenty of tool's for the job.

DMF is expensive to replace.. you can buy solid ones, only sacrifice is slight more vibration, easy to live with,

Make sure your workspace is good,and a extra set of hands is a blessing,
weight of these boxes aint good on your own,

iuse good quality trolley jack, the bigger the better,

Take your time - label bolts if you need too

Allow plenty of time! i mean plenty

Bolts will be subborn - have things like Oil, heat availible to help break things loose

You WILL need to drain trans fluid, if box has done 200k/km then it'll be happy to have its fluid changed

Getting the car up as high as possible ON AXLE STANDS does help when getting box out and then back in

I found me with box on gut/chest lifting, and somebody above me lifting we had stable control and was just able to slot it in
We had 2 bolts just tacked into place to help with alignment = Went in first time

the clutch needs to be spot on central as well otherwise box will never go back in

ziggy

Do you want 'hernias,

That's how I've got mine..

Take my advice..don't lift gearboxes like that..in years to come it bites back honest.
Use a trolley jack.. not a small tiny thing something ..with a big flat cup perch box on there..

oldhammer said:

Do you want 'hernias,

That's how I've got mine..

Take my advice..don't lift gearboxes like that..in years to come it bites back honest.
Use a trolley jack.. not a small tiny thing something ..with a big flat cup perch box on there..

Click to expand...

Depends if your used to lifting or not

but also the petrol boxes are lighter vs the diesels ones

built stronger to handle the torque better

Ziggy

'Depends if your used to lifting or not'


ive been doing clutches on car's long before FWD become more common,
Try lifting a cast iron rwd, box in on your back,


'it dont matter,if your used to lifting or not, weight like that on your chest
will do damadge, might not do straight away..but eventualy it will,

oldhammer said:

'Depends if your used to lifting or not'


ive been doing clutches on car's long before FWD become more common,
Try lifting a cast iron rwd, box in on your back,


'it dont matter,if your used to lifting or not, weight like that on your chest
will do damadge, might not do straight away..but eventualy it will,

Click to expand...

i werent on my own - i had somebody above me

Ziggy

AndyRKett said:

I changed the clutch on my 1.3 multijet recently with a LUK clutch kit which cost £80~ish I certainly wouldn't expect you to be paying more than a £100 and your car shouldn't have a DMF as only the 1.9multijet (hgt) and the later grande puntos had them installed as standard

I forget on the design for the 1.9jtd but it might be worth fitting a new slave cylinder too, if it's the type that is installed in the bell housing and is fitted around the gearbox input shaft, otherwise if it was to fail a year down the line it's all got to come apart again, a full clutch kit will have the thrust bearing included definitely change this

Click to expand...

The 8V JTD does have a DMF fitted and the slave cylinder is external (in theory it's possible to change it with removing the battery box, but in practice you'll actually be able to see what you're doing if you remove the box).

Hi,

:yeahthat:

Make sure you check the DMF thoroughly if your not going to automatically replace it.

You want to check the free-play angle, this is the amount of travel when rotatated between each mass of the flywheel before you feel resistance. This is a good indicator of how worn the DMF is.

You also want to check the amount of "rock". This is the amount of movement between the two masses as you try and rock the DMF. Ie in a similar manor to how you would check a wheel bearing or track rod end when you have a car on the ramp.

There are specialist tools to do these test accurately, but you can still get a feel of the DMF's condition by doing it by hand,

Also as others have mentioned, check for any oil leaks from seals both engine side and gearbox side, and also check for any scoring/ damage to the DMF face.

Alan

Hello there, I tell you my last doubts:


JOB TO DO
I have seen that a valeo DMF + clutch kit costs non much more than a SMF+clutch kit.
The real vantage of the second solution is when I change the clutch the next time.

Obviously I'll carefully check the DMF, but in your experience, if is in good condition, I can expect it can last for at least another 100000 km?
And, in the same way, the seals?
I would to avoid to dismantle it a second time sooner than expected.
I'm not so worried for the slave cylinder, because it is external and it seems a 10 minutes job.....;

Have you had any experience in transforming a DMF car in a SMF car?
I'm a bit worried because the 1.9 JTD 8v has the maximum torque at very low rpm, so I'm afraid that a SMF can create a lot of vibrations when you pull loads at low rpm.



TOOLS
I don't understand the gut/chest lifting part ,
but it scares me, I'm not Swarzy enough ;
Can I do the lifting part using what I have?
I have:

1spray can of svitol, (a sort of wd-40), a mini-torch loaded with butane-propane (used in lighters)

2 Beta axel stand 2tons like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beta-Tools-...850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43ceb7e442

1 bottle jack 3tons

1 bottle jack 2tons

1 little trolley jack 2tons like this:
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/garage-equipment/trolley-jacks-axle-stands

1 electric winch (250kg)

plenty of timber chunks

1 arc welder (to build thingy that can help)

I need specific tools ? (to spot on central the clutch, and to stop the possible flywheel rotation?)


bye!