Just as i was really strting to like this little car it goes and does something !

Had to just go and rescue the wifey, she said the car was really juddery, as if she was letting the clutch out too soon, etc. The Temp gauge also went all the way to the top and the red warning light came on. By the time i got to her in my other car ( with sealed watering can full of water ) the car had cooled down. It started first time for me and was OK on the 5 mile drive home. Popped it out of gear a few times and gunned the revs along the way, the temp seemed to be ultra sensitive raising quickly, but went back down quickly. I left the car on tickover for 10 minutes at home and the temp did rise again quickly on revving it up ( not sustained - just a few 'blips'). the temp came back down to mid way when the fan cut in.

I'm waitig for it to cool fully before checking the water level, temp sensor wires, etc. Just thought i'd post to get a few idea's.
I note there seems to be quite a bit of talk regarding the head gasket on these cars, i presume i'd be losing a lot of water if this was the problem ?

I checked coolant level the other day and although the level was near Min there was water in . ( I didn't top up as i'd planned to pop a litre of neat anti-freeze in rather than plain water ) .

As usual any help or experience geatly appreciated.

Are there white fumes from the exhaust? Is there 'mayo' in the oil filler cap? Do the heater blow cold even though the engine is warm? Water leavel ok? All these things 'can' indicate a headgasket problem.
Cat x

16v cab said:

Are there white fumes from the exhaust? Is there 'mayo' in the oil filler cap? Do the heater blow cold even though the engine is warm? Water leavel ok? All these things 'can' indicate a headgasket problem.
Cat x

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A few more findings:
My wife followed me home for the % miles and didn't notice any obvious white smoke from the exhaust even when i 'blipped' the throttle and also slowed down and excelerated away from her a couple of times.

No Mayo in the Oil filler cap. I did an oil change less than 2,200 miles ago and the oil on the dipstick is still within well within the marks, and looks clean and maybe even still slightly green ( I used Duckhams 10w40 semi-synth)

I thought about an air block in the cooling system and so Drove with the heater fan on #1 with the temp selected to fully hot (windows down as it got a bit warm in the rare scottish sun )

I've just topped the coolant water level up. It only needed a bit and was about half way between min and max , but it was still slightly warm. I topped it up to the max mark.

I've got to go to work now but appreciate all idea's . I'm now suspecting a dodgy temp sensor or wiring at the moment, although my wife did say the car was driving weird.

Green flag break down cover, well worth £8-£9 per month of my money for peice of mind....

catch you later...

Well good luck. Let us know what it is.

Cat x

16v cab said:

Well good luck. Let us know what it is.

Cat x

Click to expand...

Cheers

Just had another development. I've just driven home from work ( part timer or what ), and the car drove OK. A 12 mile journey of about 15 -20 mins and so Car is up to temp. At first the heating worked OK whilst driving along, the temp responding to the temp selector no probs. I've just sat in the car for 5 or 10 minutes on parking up, car just ticking over, even wth the fan on full and the Heat selector on full, the air coming out of the vents is cool to luke warm at best, ( it should be really hot ! ), the engine temp gauge was showing 1/2 to 3/4 hot.

Any more idea's given this new info ?

KwikPhix328 said:

Cheers

Just had another development. I've just driven home from work ( part timer or what ), and the car drove OK. A 12 mile journey of about 15 -20 mins and so Car is up to temp. At first the heating worked OK whilst driving along, the temp responding to the temp selector no probs. I've just sat in the car for 5 or 10 minutes on parking up, car just ticking over, even wth the fan on full and the Heat selector on full, the air coming out of the vents is cool to luke warm at best, ( it should be really hot ! ), the engine temp gauge was showing 1/2 to 3/4 hot.

Any more idea's given this new info ?

Click to expand...

I have a MKII W reg (2000) ELX and I had all these problems- temp going mad and the juddering and then it settled down a bit (I lost all my coolent, just came pouring out and had to top up everytime I used it! And still 2 RAC guys said it was fine!) but it soon came back quickly and the AA guy told me my head gasket had blown. I had no mayo like oil or smoke coming from the exhuast, but I made the problem worse by continuing to drive it, only coz the RAC said its fine! As a result of the stupidity of them I ended up being towed to a garage by the AA who found the problem in about 2mins! I hope its just a sensor for you or a cooling problem and what Ive said has been helpful, let us know what the problem is.

Try bleeding the cooling system first, maybe replacing the thermostat and see what happens then. Mine had a broken thermostat and had all the symptoms of a blown head gasket but replacing the thermostat (and the radiator in the end - it had a leak but was losing water rapidly) sorted it out. It didn't run too well either.

You could always pop to a garage on Monday and ask them to do a compression test. Then you'll know for sure if it is or isnt the head gasket.

I advise you go to a dealer and ask them to bleed the cooling system properly and then carry out a cylinder block test, this is a chemical test which traces carbon monoxide in the cooling system, it is the best headgasket test you can do. Dont drive the car anymore than you have to as you definately have an air lock in the engine, (the heater proves this).

Just got back in from work ! ( not so lucky this shift ). Anyway this morning before i went to work i had another little look and a play.

I topped up the expansion tank until water flowed out of the radiator bleed point, i also undid the bleed point on the heater matrix (? ) hoses, however no water came out. I then started the engine, water instantly came out of the heater bleed point and so i refitted the plug to stop it. i then topped up the expansion tank again untl water cam out of the rad and closed off thet plug too. I left the car running for about ten minutes. When i went back out to it the needle was vertical ( over temp !) and the red warning light was on, also water was pumping out from underneath the radiator cap, which was fully tightened ( at least i know the pressure relief function works ).

Te heater Fan was on and blowing cool air, I'm not too hopefull, however
I managed to get to the dealers before they closed Sat morning and bought a new Thermostat housing (nice touch Fiat, put a standard £2 item in a fancy housing and charge £17 for it ! ) . I thought i'd go for the cheapest option first as i have some spare time sunday to look at it.

I think i'll give all of my Cylinder head manifold nuts and bolts a clean and a splash of Plus Gas whilst I'm in there tomorrow, i fear they are going to be seeing some action, The exhaust ones look like they will be fun.....

I've got one of them Gunson Hi-Gauge compression testers so I'll do that too...

KwikPhix328 said:

Just got back in from work ! ( not so lucky this shift ). Anyway this morning before i went to work i had another little look and a play.

I topped up the expansion tank until water flowed out of the radiator bleed point, i also undid the bleed point on the heater matrix (? ) hoses, however no water came out. I then started the engine, water instantly came out of the heater bleed point and so i refitted the plug to stop it. i then topped up the expansion tank again untl water cam out of the rad and closed off thet plug too. I left the car running for about ten minutes. When i went back out to it the needle was vertical ( over temp !) and the red warning light was on, also water was pumping out from underneath the radiator cap, which was fully tightened ( at least i know the pressure relief function works ).

Te heater Fan was on and blowing cool air, I'm not too hopefull, however
I managed to get to the dealers before they closed Sat morning and bought a new Thermostat housing (nice touch Fiat, put a standard £2 item in a fancy housing and charge £17 for it ! ) . I thought i'd go for the cheapest option first as i have some spare time sunday to look at it.

I think i'll give all of my Cylinder head manifold nuts and bolts a clean and a splash of Plus Gas whilst I'm in there tomorrow, i fear they are going to be seeing some action, The exhaust ones look like they will be fun.....

I've got one of them Gunson Hi-Gauge compression testers so I'll do that too...

Click to expand...

I dont mean to sound pessamistic but the same thing happened to me (when the head went), I had the radiator bleed twice coz I had an air lock and the fans were blowing out cold air. The car would when going at lower speeds rev itself up to keep it ticking over. I would go to a garage asap and get the chemical test done, the AA guy did this for and found the problem in bout 10 seconds. Good luck with whatever happens.

angel751 said:

I dont mean to sound pessamistic but the same thing happened to me (when the head went), I had the radiator bleed twice coz I had an air lock and the fans were blowing out cold air. The car would when going at lower speeds rev itself up to keep it ticking over. I would go to a garage asap and get the chemical test done, the AA guy did this for and found the problem in bout 10 seconds. Good luck with whatever happens.

Click to expand...

It's not happened to me so far but the wife told me when she first had the problem that the car was revving itself up and she didn't even touch the throttle pedal - bugger. I need to go and buy a new frigging jubilee clip before i have a go at the thermostat, looks like there's a factory style 'use once' clip fittied

I presume when you said "Head went" you meant just the head gasket and not the cylinder head itself ?

NumanR said:

I advise you go to a dealer and ask them to bleed the cooling system properly and then carry out a cylinder block test, this is a chemical test which traces carbon monoxide in the cooling system, it is the best headgasket test you can do. Dont drive the car anymore than you have to as you definately have an air lock in the engine, (the heater proves this).

Click to expand...

no offence but there are a lot of dealers that dont know how to bleed a punto properly, mainly they only fill to the max mark and that is below the level of rear bleed screw, manu many people on here have had hg go after a service with coolent change at main dealers. the bast way is as follows.
open both, fill coolent right to top past max, squese all hoses, repeat untill loads of bubble free collent comes out the back bleed screw, then fill right to top again completly remove rad bleed screw, let coolent run into a bucket (or on the floor if you bad) untill it goes down to max mark quickly put screw back, make sure coolent still at max, replace cap, check bleed screws are tight, run engine till hot fan comes on, turn off let cool pref' over night, check level n re fill to max.
also the teast you mension only shows problems if gasket has gone between coolent chamber and a cylinder, it wont show problem if gasket gone between water and oil chambers.

Hope I'm not boring everybody too much with this one.

OK, I removed and tested the old thermostat in a saucepan of boiling water. It seemed to work OK, but i could see some places where the 'plug' had been binding a little, ( not badly though). I decided to check out my new one and then fit it anyway, (only £17 money already spent , etc...).

I then gave the car a very thorough water top up and bleed. Basically I did as Dave suggested ( before i'd even seen his post ), Squeezing all the hoses as i went. The secret is to close the bleed screws whilst clear water is still coming out, so as not to introduce any air. I then started the car and let it run until the fan came on. You may not like to try this at home but as the car was still running i removed the pressure from the rad cap and then placed it on with only light pressure, i then opened up the bleed screws again to expell the last bits of air ( hopefully ).

I also took the trouble of doing a Compression check. The Haynes book of lies suggests that anything over 10 bar is OK. All of my cylinders quickly rose to at least 10 Bar within a couple of revolutions (or so), all 4 cylinders where each checked twice and all managed to peak at 17.5 - 18 bar on my Gunsons Hi-Gauge.

I've just given the car a little run of about 15 miles ( upto about 5500 rpm along the way ). The Temp gauge is now rock solid at exactly mid way, with none of the previous wild readings going up and down and red light , etc. The Heater fan blows hot air whenever selected.

Early days I know but I'm hopefull that Possibly changing the thermostat, but certainly doing a thorough fill and bleed seems to have worked.

Thanks for any help, experience and advice. I'll post back if things go bad again and i hope somebody finds this thread helpful in the future.....

I'm going to have to do it all again over the next week as the engine only has plain water in it with no Anti-Freeze/ corrosion inhibitor, Ho hum... :bang:

I hope this has cured it.
Maybe it could be made a sticky out help peeps out in future.

Oh well looks lke i spoke too soon..

Checked the water level this morning and it was down by 0.6 litre ! I know that it was fully topped up (whilst cold) 24 hours earlier.
The temp guage and Heater is OK...so far.

I was expecting problems as the idle speed was slightly lumpy and low ( circa 700-750 rpm) when i picked my wife up from work last night, i also noticed (sitting in the car on tickover) that with the heater fan off i could hear lots of 'Gurgling' through the heater matrix if i listened carefully, especially after revving up slightly, i've never noticed this before.

I'll phone some garages up and see if any of them can do this Exhaust gas sniffer test . I now suspect the Head Gasket though.
Bugger, more money .....