basically.. a few weeks ago there was a rattling coming from the engine bay when in neutral and not touching the clutch. noise goes away when clutch is pressed. took it garage and he said it was likely one of the gears was shot and spinning against the clutch when it shouldnt be a wearing it away. took the front wheel off to do some other work on the car, and when out of gear and in neutral, where you connect the wheel with nuts etc was turning like was in gear and being revved..
iv been having trouble gettin in third gear for a few days and today it wouldnt select any gear at all.. and when could finally get into a gear it would not disengage.

heard it could need a new gearbox completely, new clutch as another option, or just the gear linkage. and help would be really appreciated.

steve

Firstly the gearbox is constant mesh so with no load on the wheel and the engine running the wheel will turn, that is not the problem.

Secondly, change your garage.

Have they/you checked the oil level?

I expect not, and you are still driving it.

Take the box out, its going to be box and/or clutch, but probably both. There is no point taking the box out and not replacing the clutch while you are there.

My guess is input shaft bearing/seal.

Cheers

D

To use a few more words to say the same things -

The gears teeth are always in contact. Sliding rings connect the gears to the shaft so drive gets transmitted. When in neutral, oil between the parts is enough to allow everything to spin. As RC says all normal.

The rattles however show that at least the clutch was failing. That should have been obvious to the mechanic so find another one with more gumption.

The gearbox needs to come off the car and a new clutch fitted. While its off the input shaft to the gearbox needs to be examined. Any leak or slack or wobble or grindy feel - its needs a new bearing an seal. They seem to suffer if the oil level isnt kept really well topped up.

Keeping on driving car with obvious faults will only add to the repair costs. It really doesn't need a mechanic to know that one.

Currently have the same problem

Rattles in Gear and when clutch is up
When i dip clutch the Noise goes away

been diagnosed as the Input Shaft Bearings failing

Sliding into 3rd been hard is possibly a Nackered Syncro....

Is the fluid level okay and a pleasant golden look?

If the clutch is looking thin - as said, bite bullet now, get a new clutch put in as well
it'll work out cheaper then 2 rounds of Gearbox off work

If the Input shaft is dead, get a new Bearing and New Seal and get it replaced ASAP
If the bearing fails enough, the oil seal will break, spray oil over the clutch, and it means a new Clutch Regardless as well....

Ziggy

thanks for the response guys.. definately going go to a different garage.. been reading around a few other places and the closest bet seems to be the clutch release bearing.
does anyone know roughly how much it would be to get it fixed?

New clutch is about 2 hours labour plus clutch kit parts. Check at Europarts and shop4parts.

The gearbox input shaft must also be checked properly because if it fails it will take the new clutch and cause more gearbox damage.

the fork that moves the release bearings can wear through and cause big problems
fiat keep these in stock for a reasonable price
check this when box off

WhiteSei said:

New clutch is about 2 hours labour plus clutch kit parts. Check at Europarts and shop4parts.

The gearbox input shaft must also be checked properly because if it fails it will take the new clutch and cause more gearbox damage.

Click to expand...

MUST MUST MUST

The Input Shaft Seal very quickly follows a Bearing failure
So the Clutch will be the next in line

the Clutch Release Bearing Will make a Noise When the clutch is pressed, as thats when its under the most Load IIRC
IF it makes the Noise Stop, then its almost likely the Input bearing

Thats what mine is atm
So when ever i can - i'm dipping the clutch, to help support input bearing a little bit

Ziggy

Snag - when the engine is driving - the gears will be trying to push apart and that really loads up the bearings. When its not driving the bearing is probably having an easy time. The rattle says its innards are falling apart.

seriously not good if it collapses under load.

When you get it apart it might be possible to get a better spec bearing of the same sizes. Any good bearing factors will be able to say if its available as standard or a Fiat only part.

Does anyone now the repair cost for a problem like this as mine also seams to "rattle" and third gear can be hard to get some times but i have never had it jump of of gear.

Ashjj said:

Does anyone now the repair cost for a problem like this as mine also seams to "rattle" and third gear can be hard to get some times but i have never had it jump of of gear.

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that sounds like the Syncro, If its syncro, It gets expensive
2nd box or recon really
I had a 2nd box that was terrible to get into 3rd, it was Darn right impossible,
So i ended up skipping it 1 - 2(HARD) - 4th, as it was quicker that way
Box Shortly followed with a Ticking Noise as the Diff started to clunk and blew!

But clutch can play havoc on gear which is random, and only gets worse
When was Clutch last done?

Ziggy

Quite probably bits of input bearing or 3rd gear synchro cones got into the diff and blew it apart when you took a tight turn.

If the gear works when revs are matched its most likely the synchro but could be clutch dragging.

Ahh rite that doesn't sound too good then, Third is not that hard to get i have never had to skip it it just doesnt alwys go in as smooth as the others.

Ive owned the car for a year and from the history i have wich is pritty full there is nothing about the clutch so im guessing never.

generally:
Rattle that starts when clutch is pressed = clutch release bearing
Rattle that stops when clutch is pressed = gearbox input bearing

Its not a hard rule, but one or the other is failing and to fix the gearbox has to come out. While its out examine the gearbox and repair as needed. Input shaft should not wobble, grind, leak, etc.

Simple check is to check the oil level.

If some is missing, then there is a leak, and unless there is an external witness mark, it will be the bearing seal.

The next step would be to check the quality. Anything dark or lumpy tells you there is internal breakage or wear.

Cheers

D

WhiteSei said:

generally:
Rattle that starts when clutch is pressed = clutch release bearing
Rattle that stops when clutch is pressed = gearbox input bearing

Its not a hard rule, but one or the other is failing and to fix the gearbox has to come out. While its out examine the gearbox and repair as needed. Input shaft should not wobble, grind, leak, etc.

Click to expand...

ahh this is very help full as it will be the gear box input bearing.

Gearbox comeing out sounds expensive but if guessing that if its not seen to its only going to get worse.

A garage can change a clutch in around 2 hours (they do them all the time) so labour isnt the issue. But it might need a new gearbox or just the bearing. And of course do the clutch anyway.

This is handy information
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/158346-input-shaft-bearing-renewal.html

Yer that will probably be best as as far as im aware its never been done. im hopeing its just the bearing.

Either way its a new clutch AND it might be the gearbox bearing as well. There is no point taking the box off and leaving an old clutch in there.

yup that sounds sensible. Either way its gona have to wait till the end of the month till i get paid.

Thanks for your help atleast i Know what it is now.