Technical Engine shagged on brand new 1.4 16V

Jason_6780 · Nov 18, 2006

Touch wood, i've not had any major problems with my car. All was running right, smooth acceleration etc.

Then last night, I followed some idiot in an old 4X4 doing 30 - 40mph on a 60 for ages, got past a roundabout and took my chance. Now I never normally over-take and certainly haven't reved the **** out of the car in anyway shape or form as it's brand new.

So I pulled out and overtook him in 2nd, in my frustration i'd floored it and only realised by the engine sounding noisey as anything! Looked at the tacho quickly and it was on 7 - 8000rpm.. droped it into 3rd as soon as possible and carried on.

Now before this happened, acceleration was smooth, 2nd had pull, I could use gear-breaking when dropping from third to second at roundabouts etc. Also the tachometre was responsive, quick and agile when applying gas and taking my foot off.

Imdiately after I noticed the tacho behaving slughish, pulling away in 2nd sluggish, dropping from 3rd to 2nd no engine-breaking.. nothing when I pull my foot up past the biting point. Feels like a different car. When I ran my finger inside the exhaust I pulled it out to have a sooty black as black finger that was a clean tailpipe before!??!?!

Quite alarmed at the thought of ****ing the engine by red-lining it in 2nd I took it into the dealers today, explained (Without the fact i'd redlined) and he took it for a drive said "all seems ok".

It's not, it's booked in Monday. I asked him if there's a Rev Limiter as such, he said there is if it had come on it'd like up on the dash (no light) but it really feels like there is?!?!

If i've damaged the engine - ****ed a piston etc will I have to pay for it?! I really hope it doesn't turn into one of these things that will never be put right.

Am very concerned i've shagged the engine and it might not be fixed. :shakehead

beau · Nov 18, 2006

well i dont know! but if they cant fix it cos they cant find whats wrong, just say you want a new car, cos they cant fix it.

ChrisUK · Nov 18, 2006

At the end of the day 8000rpm is way higher than the start of the redline and must of been put up their by the speed you where doing and your frontward inertia driving the engine faster than it should be going. IMO its your word against theres and in all honesty they don't have to fix it as that would class as abuse so if they wanted to be arsey they wouldn't fix it. Just see how it goes good luck

.

Jason_6780 · Nov 18, 2006

Is there a red line above 6000 rpm then?

Does anyone know if there is a rev limiter on it as such?

Jason_6780 · Nov 18, 2006

Upon consulting the Owner's Handbook.. it does say

"IMPORTANT The electronic injection control system gradually shuts off the flow of fuel when the engine is "over-revving" resulting in a gradual loss of engine power

When the engine is idling, the rev counter may indicatea gradual or sudden highering of the speed.

This is normal as it takes place during normal operation, for example when activating the climate control system or the fan. In particular a slow change in the speed preserves the battery charge."

OK so that should have kicked in, question is - is it stuck on untill a dealer resets it?

ChrisUK · Nov 18, 2006

Nope its automatically controlled by the ECU and only activates when driving normally... you werent you shifted down to second which meant that the speed you where going over-revved the engine and wasn't you accelerating from a stand still and forgetting to change gear.

Jason_6780 · Nov 18, 2006

I didn't shift down to second, I overtook in 2nd as we'd just come off a roundabout - I forgot to change upto 3rd whilst overtaking.

Came off roundabout

was in 2nd

overtook him in 2nd gear - reved it (didn't intentionally)

then when I got past went upto 3rd.

No shift down. Just 2nd gear goin upto 7 - 8rpm..

I understand it's probably my fault if there's damage, if I have to pay for it sobeit. But I just hope it something fixable and not one of these "there's nothing wrong with it" but i'll always know there is.

NumanR · Nov 18, 2006

Max engine revs are recorded in the ecu so all the dealer has to do is check in the ecu and they will be able to see that the engine has been overrevved.

Jason_6780 · Nov 18, 2006

Well fair enough, as I said I don't care if they do - as long as it's fixable even if I have to pay for it!

Superboy · Nov 18, 2006

I wouldn't worry about it at all -
Keep it really SIMPLE and CLEAR...just tell the garage that the reason you are here is because it's not driving at all like you are used to and that something is obviously up with the engine and that you don't want it back until it's running the same way again.
Drive one of their Sportings, make sure that it feels good, then get the service guy to drive it and then make him drive yours for a comparison.....simple.....and do not deviate from that....and certainly no money is gonna be paid by you to them.

T14086 · Nov 19, 2006

Jason_6780 said:
I took it into the dealers today, explained (Without the fact i'd redlined)

Lets hope they dont visit the FF & read this then

p.s.Because its a new model etc etc if it does need a engine Fiat will inspect it first & as NumanR said the amount of 'over-revs' will clearly be displayed.

Jason_6780 · Nov 19, 2006

If they do they do. I don't care, just as long as it's fixed. Because at the end of the day i've got four years to pay for it.

arc · Nov 19, 2006

ok.. what is all this crap about over-revving? It hasn't over revved, its hit the rev limiter.. if that. The ECU let the car rev up to that, it wasn't forced beyond that - bouncing it up near the limiter once should not do any damage, if it did then the limiter is in the wrong place.

car should be fixed, you shouldn't really have revved it to the limiter - but then no damage should've occured in doing so.

edit: another thing, why does the ECU back the fuelling off? Thats a bit stupid isn't it, it's got full spark, fuel and throttle posistion control.. so how does it limit the engine at high rpm.. it leans out the mixture - yeah good one fiat

ps, if the engine is broken can i have it?

VindiVee8 · Nov 19, 2006

:yeahthat: I cannot see how accellerating in gear can over rev the engine, yes if you dropped down a cog then its possible, you just reved it high thats all, the engine should have taken it easy, rev limiter should have kicked in before any damage can occur. I would not be too worried about it not being covered by the warranty.

serin · Nov 19, 2006

i bounced my car off the limiter a few times, and its given me nay troubles

the limiter is there to prevent damage, so if its managed to damage itself, Fiat has put it too high up the rev range

The Trooper · Nov 19, 2006

When I bought my car from new they said it doesn't need running in and can be revved right up to the limit. I asked if it should be 'run in' but was told this is not neccessary as these days they're all run in on the bench. So therefore there can't be such as thing as over revving it, as the limiter stops it revving any higher than it should.

custard · Nov 19, 2006

in that situation yes but you can over rev an engine dropping down the gears at high speed as its mechanically induced

The Sultan · Nov 19, 2006

arc said:
edit: another thing, why does the ECU back the fuelling off? Thats a bit stupid isn't it, it's got full spark, fuel and throttle posistion control.. so how does it limit the engine at high rpm.. it leans out the mixture - yeah good one fiat

it dosent lean out the mixture it shuts off the fuel completly

and another thing it dosent have a throtle control it has an idle controle valve witch canot limit the engine in any way just control idle

The Sultan · Nov 19, 2006

i dont beleive you have over reved it with your right foot, droping into second sounds more likely

infact their is a prosedure of reving it to the limiter for learning the phonic wheel sensor on the engine this has 2 be done 2 or 3 times over and dose more good than harm as most engines have been grogeled

if you have induced the engine to over rev then you may have skiped the timing ie jumped a tooth on the cam belt this whould explain the poor perfomance

howether i have never heared of anybody breaking a fiat engine throu reving it to hard except a few cases were it has not been servised and more importanly oil changed or not had any in atall because people dont check it often enouth

i rev my uno to the limiter all the time well just under it and it is set to 7500 rpm and afterwards it sounds much healthier my car dosent smoke or lose any oil atall

if you carry on driving it and you have done internal damage to the engine you will notice oil or water levels droping
ie pistons worn or cracked or head gasket blown more likely the later

if the levels stay normal then i can only gues the timing has jumped

just be glad you dident buy a ford that whould have long expired anything past 6500 rpm

arc · Nov 19, 2006

ok people, go back and read..

he revved it to 7k ish in second and then changed up into 3rd.. you know, a higher gear.. so the revs would've dropped, not been forced up.

now.. onto rev limiters,

Upon consulting the Owner's Handbook.. it does say

"IMPORTANT The electronic injection control system gradually shuts off the flow of fuel when the engine is "over-revving" resulting in a gradual loss of engine power

gradual, not complete - that is leaning it out. regardless, to reduce fuel is leaning out.

and as for throttle contorl.. these things are fly by wire throttle. the throttle butterfly is moved by a stepper motor, not a cable thats connected the accelerator - all that is controlled by the ECU, so like i said, full spark, fuel and throttle control.

Technical Engine shagged on brand new 1.4 16V

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