sumplug said:
thats what i've said about fiats for the last few years.
can we agree they're as crap as each other?
What would most put you off buying a car?
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What would most put you off buying a car?
thats what i've said about fiats for the last few years.
can we agree they're as crap as each other?
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OP
fords and fiats as Crap as eachother?? don't you mean as good as eachother? 
ok then as good as each other
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OP
yeh that's better
jug said:
Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's Fiats were technologically far more advance than Fords. The 127/ 128 had an overhead cam engine and option of 5 speed gearbox in the 70's, the Fiesta ran the antiquated Kent engine and 4 speed gearbox only until the mk2 Fiesta of 1984 (ish). Even then only the XR2 and 1.4 S came with overhead cam.
Uno turbo had electronic MPI injection in 1985 while S1 RST ran with a carburetor until the S2 RST a few years later.
Fiat Mirafiori ran a twin cam 2.0 litre while the only mk2 Escorts to have single ohc Pintos were the 1.6 Mexico and RS2000. All the others were ohv.
Most small Fiats of the era had far better handling than equivilent Fords, something the Italians were always known for.
Such a shame the Fiats rusted to bits in that era
Today there's little in it, and that applies to most cars in each market sector. However, I could never understand why Ford chose to use that ancient 'Valencia' engine in the KA (and Fiesta?), which to all intents and purposes is nothing more than an updated 'Kent' pushrod lump that first saw the light of day in the late 50's Ford 100E Popular :nutter:
Mind you, Fiat did keep on using their ohv engine in 899cc Cinqs/ Seis, which is almost as old as the Ford ohv... :chin:
do you even remember the series1?! you're thinking (as many people do) that the series1 had a 1.6cvh with a garrett T3 turbo bodged on top. thats not true at all, its a 1.6 cvh with unique fuel injeciton just for the rsturbo. series1 had a bosch KE-Jetronic fuel injection (unlike the K-Jetronic found on the XR3i) from the start of its production.
also many of the internals were improved, it even had different pistons to any other 1.6cvh. the gearbox had lsd. it had a great antiroll bar on the front. in fact almost the whole car was different to other cvh escorts of the time and it was considered a very advanced car at the time. only the rust was a shared feature with other models. and the dashboard cracks. everything else makes other escorts look crap (not hard i know).
fiat were more technologically advanced in the good old days. thats why they broke constantly, and they're still the same (niggling faults as they've said since i was born). citroen on the other hand were even more advanced than fiat but they actually worked (shame they were so ugly). there's no point trying to sell cars on their great technological developments if they dont work, apart from rust it was fiat's advanced technology (aka niggling faults) that put people off owning one. surely you remember that?
also many of the internals were improved, it even had different pistons to any other 1.6cvh. the gearbox had lsd. it had a great antiroll bar on the front. in fact almost the whole car was different to other cvh escorts of the time and it was considered a very advanced car at the time. only the rust was a shared feature with other models. and the dashboard cracks. everything else makes other escorts look crap (not hard i know).
fiat were more technologically advanced in the good old days. thats why they broke constantly, and they're still the same (niggling faults as they've said since i was born). citroen on the other hand were even more advanced than fiat but they actually worked (shame they were so ugly). there's no point trying to sell cars on their great technological developments if they dont work, apart from rust it was fiat's advanced technology (aka niggling faults) that put people off owning one. surely you remember that?
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jug said:
Yes, I do remember the S1. A friend had one (1985 model in white, the only colour available) that was only 3 years old (in 1988) and had nothing but trouble with it. It spent more time in the garage than it did on the road...
You're right about it being fuel injected and not carb'ed. I was getting it mixed up with the R5 GTT engine
jug said:
All decent turbo charged engines need substantial modifications to run higher boost turbos. At the end of the day, it was still a CVH engine (rather unkindly known to the motoring press as 'Coarse, Vibratory and Harsh'!) And with amount of torque steer from a front driver with that much power, an LSD was essential to tame the handling. Power is meaningless unless you can get it down on the road!
jug said:
So did a lot of the lesser models! I had to change one on a 1.4 Ghia mk4 Escort... The one fitted to the turbo was beefier, that's all.
jug said:
It was still basically an Escort mk3 chassis/ body, which was never that brilliant in the first place. It was developed by Ford's SVE department, which was kind of their equivilent to Fiat and Abarth. Though it was quick in a straight line it's handling wasn't that good compared with the opposition. As mentioned earlier, the Pug 205 GTi, Golf GTi and Strada Abarth could trounce it on a track because of their superior handling.
As posted somewhere by J333EVO (in this thread I think), EVO magazine recently did a feature on FWD cars and rated which were best. The S1 RS Turbo Escort was listed under the 'bad FWD' cars section...
jug said:
Yup, except the biggest bug bear of old Fiats was electrics. Magnetti Marello was the Italian 'Prince of Darkness'.
Mechanically they were tough, engines rarely gave problems and neither did the transmissions, but the ancillaries such as distributors, alternators, coils etc. did. A 127/ 128 was unlikely to have worn out piston rings by 75K miles (unless it was neglected), unlike an OHV Kent engine. Hell, I remember it being a regular occurance to have to do head and engine work on friends' mk2 Escorts :bang: Unfortunately it was rust that killed old Fiats, but that applied to many cars of the era. Granted, Fiat were particularly bad though...
As to what can go wrong with an RS Turbo Escort, this is some of the guide for the S2, which was effectively a softened down version of the S1. Full guide is here:
http://www.fasterfords.com/guides/s2_rst.htm
Engine:
The S2 suffers from all the usual CVH gremlins, valve guides, blocked breather pipes, oil leaking into the distributor, overheating in hot weather (due to the fan not coming on) and even slow warmup from cold (due to the crappy thermostats). Most if not all of these problems are caused by poor maintenance, the CVH really does not get on with short journeys or lack of servicing.
Other possible problems can come from the head gaskets, check the oil for white sludge or a bubbling header tank with the car running and warmed up.
Turbo's can wear, accelerate hard in 2nd or 3rd if your mirror is then full of smoke when you lift off or the turbo sounds like a police siren, chances are your going to need a new turbo.
The camshafts are also not a strong point, make sure there's no noise from the top end of the engine and that it pulls strong when coming on boost. Lastly make sure the cambelt is changed at least every 36,000 miles.
Gearbox:
Fwd Escort gearboxes from this time can be a pig to select gears especially reverse, this can normally be solved with new linkages and some time spent adjusting it all afterwards, but don't expect reverse to ever be perfect. To check the condition of the clutch select 4th gear at something around 50mph and give it beans, if the revs go up much faster than the speedo the clutch doesn't have long for this world. To check the LSD find some nice tight corners and make sure it pulls cleanly around and out the otherside.
Bodywork:
One more needed
Even the newest RST is 11 years old now, so your going need to check everything for rust or bad repairs. Starting at the front, lift the bonnet and take a look at the battery tray, chassis rails, cross member (where the anti roll bar mounts) and the general condition of the front panel behind the bumper and around the headlights. While you here take a look at the fuse box, the ignition relay has been known to melt its self to the fuse box. (not cheap to repair and a ba***rd to do yourself). Open the sunroof and check the gutters and channels for tin worm. Take a close look at the roof panel, normally around the centre of the panel for pin prick size specs of rust, if left untreated you could end up looking for a new roof panel, which isn't going to be a cheap job. Take a carefull look at the rear arches and then chassis rails around the rear suspension. Lastly the boot floor needs some care attention when looking for rust or repaired accedent damage. Damp in the boot can be another problem, the lower part of the petrol cap hole can rust and leaks into the boot.
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agree completely
