After university I've decided it'll be time to buy a new car as I'll need to drive 70+ miles and back two days a week, possible three.

Naturally, I want another (newer) Panda and they're at some great prices. Of course, by then, there'll be 2016 models at next to nothing and 2018 at decent prices since it seems to be the way of the Panda. Some nice Pop and Easy models available with less than 20k miles - even in my local area! A few nice 500's too, but I'm not so sure about them.

The other choice being a brand new Sandero Access. The 2017 model is quite nice, subtle improvements. It no longer looks like a van. Only thing is, will it fall apart?! It's 1.2 is no FIRE either but I haven't heard any major issues with it.

Given the fact a relatives 2015 Pop has had rubber trimmings fall off and issues with electric windows (fixed in warranty) would the Sandero be much worse?

The budget being £5,000-6,000 if I must. Nothing over £6k. Alternatives are the Corsa etc.

SB1500 said:

After university I've decided it'll be time to buy a new car as I'll need to drive 70+ miles and back two days a week, possible three.

Naturally, I want another (newer) Panda and they're at some great prices. Of course, by then, there'll be 2016 models at next to nothing and 2018 at decent prices since it seems to be the way of the Panda. Some nice Pop and Easy models available with less than 20k miles - even in my local area! A few nice 500's too, but I'm not so sure about them.

The other choice being a brand new Sandero Access. The 2017 model is quite nice, subtle improvements. It no longer looks like a van. Only thing is, will it fall apart?! It's 1.2 is no FIRE either but I haven't heard any major issues with it.

Given the fact a relatives 2015 Pop has had rubber trimmings fall off and issues with electric windows (fixed in warranty) would the Sandero be much worse?

The budget being £5,000-6,000 if I must. Nothing over £6k. Alternatives are the Corsa etc.

Click to expand...

despite the name,
the Sombrero is an Indian Built Renault..,
so I wouldn't expect great things in the longterm..,
there have apparently been 2 year old Dacia's with major body corrosion.

TBH - that's not a-typical of cars not designed for poor climates like the UK sees.

although those scabby 10 year old beemers are a bit of a mystery.. or they could be ZA built..

varesecrazy said:

despite the name,
the Sombrero is an Indian Built Renault..,
so I wouldn't expect great things in the longterm..,
there have apparently been 2 year old Dacia's with major body corrosion.

TBH - that's not a-typical of cars not designed for poor climates like the UK sees.

although those scabby 10 year old beemers are a bit of a mystery.. or they could be ZA built..

Click to expand...

So you'd say Fiat is a better-bet? I do like the new Panda more than any other small car looks wise. It might be slow, but if I wanted fast I'd not be buying a city car!

Speaking from experience, having purchased a new Sandero in 2015 (Ambiance not the base Access)

I'd go for the Panda any day.

Panda's are now cheaper new (I have seen dealers offering white pops for 6,495!!) with the same equipment level, will hold better (bad, but better) resale value.
Probably slightly better built then the Sandero, and cheaper parts and more parts availability in the UK.

Panda vs Sandero? Definitely Panda. Better quality. Can't see the Dacia outlasting it. I'm personally pleased and quietly impressed at how well my own Panda has held up over the last almost 12 years and 124K miles. I'm certainly not ready as yet to move on though.

Base spec "Sombrero" is cheap for a reason. It's really basic. And it's not much fun to drive either. If you match equipment levels and paint to a basic Panda it's more expensive than the Panda.
And it's still not much fun to drive.
Add that to the many stories of corrosion and poor quality fit & finish and it looks a lot less of a bargain.
And Renault seem to be going through a bad patch, as far as reliability is concerned, so the fact that some of the oily bits are from them doesn't help their case much. (Seems to be lots of 5 or 6 year old breakers about through electrical or engine problems. Saw a 2009 1.5 diesel Clio being scrapped last week. Under 50k miles, nice nick, leather seats etc. Electronic fault too expensive to fix)

Doubt there will be many 10-year-old Sanderos about. Even if the owners like them enough to start a forum. Which would be surprising. I'm fairly sure the dynamics of the car will not "involve" owners any more than a fridge-freezer would.
On the other hand, perhaps they will feel the need for shared misery and to compare rust stories.

Panda gets my vote. Fiat have been making surprisingly good cheap small cars for a long time. They know how to do it properly.

They are interesting enough for owners to want to share info on how to keep them running.

And they're fun to drive.

You are probably asking the wrong people here. There is a strong bias towards Fiat on here, there's a clue in the forum title.

Dacia are a Romanian brand. Renault had a relationship with them going back many years, then a stake in the company, and owned outright for a little while now, but limited to sales in Europe until recently. What you get is older Renault mechanicals and electronics, built cheaply. Older Renaults have a reputation for not ageing well, they either go on for ever, or become troublesome and a money pit. I'd expect the Dacia to follow that trend, but a little sooner. For owners wanting a cheap, but new, runaround, not to do much work, and to replace at or before the end of warranty, it fits the bill. If you want to do lots of miles, most of us would go Fiat every time, expecting the Dacia to resist such use. It might stand up very well, but few would be willing to take that risk. If you feel like a pioneer, good luck.

A used Fiat, as you described, not that old, low miles, will stand up to more use and abuse, and will still make you smile every day.

That's just my prejudiced opinion. Ready for you to come back in a year's time and say we were all wrong.

I have to say the bias here is very strong, not sure they are as bad as some people are saying if you aim for a 1.2 petrol an stay clear of the 0.9 petrol and 1.5 dci.

Any car can be fun to drive, the gear box isn't great, but it sticks to the road surprisingly well and can be a blast.

There is a Dacia forum and plenty of people tinkering with them, not to the extent that you see here on the Fiat Forum, I suspect that being down to the fact that they are still fairly new (oldest UK ones are 2013) and they are aimed at a family market.

I know there was a recall on Dusters of a certain age and color for rust on the bonnet, but haven't really seen much else besides that.

But for £6,000 with a 5 year warranty they are worth the money if you plan on keeping the car 5 years.

I think with the deals on the Pandas at the moment, the Panda is better value though, try both an see witch you prefer!

Always chose car with your heart, then your wallet, and then lastly with your rationale..

As it happens the Italian supercar (aka the Panda) ticks all those boxes...

If you're willing to go for something about 3 years old then it gives you a lot more options of cars you could choose from, don't forget that Hyundai had a 7 year warranty so an i10 or i20 that's 3 years old will still have more warranty than a brand new panda, they are a bit drab but very well built and do stand the test of time which is a lot more than can be said for a Dacia.

Kia picanto and Toyota Yaris and aygo also fall into your price range if you look at something a little older.

It's not so much bias towards Pandas as a past experiences with quite a range of budget small cars (some owned, most rentals)
Most have been truly dull, some have been awful, a few have been very good.

The nearest experience to the Sandero I can remember is a Daewoo Exel or an early Hyundai. Both were cheap, and were based on parts from superseded models of other manufacturers.
They drove OK. They were not hideously unreliable, uncomfortable or uneconomical.

Trouble is, the things that stuck in the mind were not positives. All my recollections are similar to "it didn't break down" or "it was cheap to rent". Truly dull and unmemorable driving experiences.
And most seemed to disappear from the roads within 4 or 5 years.

Daewoo went on to be aborbed into the Chevrolet brand, and then disappear from the UK after making more cheap-as-chips cars mostly based on obsolete GM models, leaving owners with no parts supply chain.

Hyundai got much better and now make a range of reliable interesting cars. Would probably buy one now if I needed a new car.

Not sure which way Dacia will go, it's too early to tell. But so far they don't impress me much. That may change. Or not.

They may well suit some people just fine. I don't have any kind of problem with that. Just not for me. So far.

I sat in a 2 year old dacia logan? The other day, felt like a 20yo VW in design and layout, but its a lot of car for little money... so it depends on your needs and wants.

tenpastnine said:

Speaking from experience, having purchased a new Sandero in 2015 (Ambiance not the base Access)

I'd go for the Panda any day.

Panda's are now cheaper new (I have seen dealers offering white pops for 6,495!!) with the same equipment level, will hold better (bad, but better) resale value.
Probably slightly better built then the Sandero, and cheaper parts and more parts availability in the UK.

Click to expand...

I like the Pop, but the lack of central locking seems a bit scary. I get far too much enjoyment out of locking/unlocking my current Panda - more than is normal! lol But, if I got a nearly new car then maybe the good deal will make it worth it!

Wee Smurf said:

Panda vs Sandero? Definitely Panda. Better quality. Can't see the Dacia outlasting it. I'm personally pleased and quietly impressed at how well my own Panda has held up over the last almost 12 years and 124K miles. I'm certainly not ready as yet to move on though.

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It'll be for commuting to your part of the country 2 days a week Wee Smurf! Something that'll sit well in traffic then! ;-) haha

irc said:

Base spec "Sombrero" is cheap for a reason. It's really basic. And it's not much fun to drive either. If you match equipment levels and paint to a basic Panda it's more expensive than the Panda.
And it's still not much fun to drive.
Add that to the many stories of corrosion and poor quality fit & finish and it looks a lot less of a bargain.
And Renault seem to be going through a bad patch, as far as reliability is concerned, so the fact that some of the oily bits are from them doesn't help their case much. (Seems to be lots of 5 or 6 year old breakers about through electrical or engine problems. Saw a 2009 1.5 diesel Clio being scrapped last week. Under 50k miles, nice nick, leather seats etc. Electronic fault too expensive to fix)

Doubt there will be many 10-year-old Sanderos about. Even if the owners like them enough to start a forum. Which would be surprising. I'm fairly sure the dynamics of the car will not "involve" owners any more than a fridge-freezer would.
On the other hand, perhaps they will feel the need for shared misery and to compare rust stories.

Panda gets my vote. Fiat have been making surprisingly good cheap small cars for a long time. They know how to do it properly.

They are interesting enough for owners to want to share info on how to keep them running.

And they're fun to drive.

Click to expand...

I've heard a lot of issues around the Duster in White as they're Indian built, so I'd certainly avoid them. As for the Sandero, you've scared me with the thought of the electrical faults?! I see tonnes of Dacias where I live but I suppose we'll only know in 10 years time if the same 2013 models are still about.

portland_bill said:

You are probably asking the wrong people here. There is a strong bias towards Fiat on here, there's a clue in the forum title.

Dacia are a Romanian brand. Renault had a relationship with them going back many years, then a stake in the company, and owned outright for a little while now, but limited to sales in Europe until recently. What you get is older Renault mechanicals and electronics, built cheaply. Older Renaults have a reputation for not ageing well, they either go on for ever, or become troublesome and a money pit. I'd expect the Dacia to follow that trend, but a little sooner. For owners wanting a cheap, but new, runaround, not to do much work, and to replace at or before the end of warranty, it fits the bill. If you want to do lots of miles, most of us would go Fiat every time, expecting the Dacia to resist such use. It might stand up very well, but few would be willing to take that risk. If you feel like a pioneer, good luck.

A used Fiat, as you described, not that old, low miles, will stand up to more use and abuse, and will still make you smile every day.

That's just my prejudiced opinion. Ready for you to come back in a year's time and say we were all wrong.

Click to expand...

Whatever I buy I want to run into the ground, beyond 10 years old easily Though I certainly don't want to be a 'pioneer' I'd be terrified to be in some of the situations I've been in with my Panda if I didn't have the help of the FF! :worship:

tenpastnine said:

I have to say the bias here is very strong, not sure they are as bad as some people are saying if you aim for a 1.2 petrol an stay clear of the 0.9 petrol and 1.5 dci.

Any car can be fun to drive, the gear box isn't great, but it sticks to the road surprisingly well and can be a blast.

There is a Dacia forum and plenty of people tinkering with them, not to the extent that you see here on the Fiat Forum, I suspect that being down to the fact that they are still fairly new (oldest UK ones are 2013) and they are aimed at a family market.

I know there was a recall on Dusters of a certain age and color for rust on the bonnet, but haven't really seen much else besides that.

But for £6,000 with a 5 year warranty they are worth the money if you plan on keeping the car 5 years.

I think with the deals on the Pandas at the moment, the Panda is better value though, try both an see witch you prefer!

Click to expand...

I am quite disappointed in the Dacia UK Forums, posts I made in September are still on the front page of the forums.. :-/ I don't think many other car brands have a UK forum as good as this!!!

TobiasBB said:

Always chose car with your heart, then your wallet, and then lastly with your rationale..

As it happens the Italian supercar (aka the Panda) ticks all those boxes...

Click to expand...

Damn right! The Panda is my favourite, but I feel all options are worth consideration. There's a long time to decide!

AndyRKett said:

If you're willing to go for something about 3 years old then it gives you a lot more options of cars you could choose from, don't forget that Hyundai had a 7 year warranty so an i10 or i20 that's 3 years old will still have more warranty than a brand new panda, they are a bit drab but very well built and do stand the test of time which is a lot more than can be said for a Dacia.

Kia picanto and Toyota Yaris and aygo also fall into your price range if you look at something a little older.

Click to expand...

I like the sound of Toyota's but I don't want to go beyond 3 years old at the time of purchase. For that, I'd be looking at an Aygo and I'm not sure just how much Toyota is in them :-/

I am a bit scared of Kia and Hyundai, but their LATEST models look promising. I'm not really technically experienced enough to really back those fears up, but I appreciate everyone on here's experience.

irc said:

It's not so much bias towards Pandas as a past experiences with quite a range of budget small cars (some owned, most rentals)
Most have been truly dull, some have been awful, a few have been very good.

The nearest experience to the Sandero I can remember is a Daewoo Exel or an early Hyundai. Both were cheap, and were based on parts from superseded models of other manufacturers.
They drove OK. They were not hideously unreliable, uncomfortable or uneconomical.

Trouble is, the things that stuck in the mind were not positives. All my recollections are similar to "it didn't break down" or "it was cheap to rent". Truly dull and unmemorable driving experiences.
And most seemed to disappear from the roads within 4 or 5 years.

Daewoo went on to be aborbed into the Chevrolet brand, and then disappear from the UK after making more cheap-as-chips cars mostly based on obsolete GM models, leaving owners with no parts supply chain.

Hyundai got much better and now make a range of reliable interesting cars. Would probably buy one now if I needed a new car.

Not sure which way Dacia will go, it's too early to tell. But so far they don't impress me much. That may change. Or not.

They may well suit some people just fine. I don't have any kind of problem with that. Just not for me. So far.

Click to expand...

Another anti-Sandero reply, noted. I am seeing a trend here!

TobiasBB said:

I sat in a 2 year old dacia logan? The other day, felt like a 20yo VW in design and layout, but its a lot of car for little money... so it depends on your needs and wants.

Click to expand...

Hey, 2017 VW design gets me feeling blue! Lol. But point noted, another non-Sandero reply.

I did go off the Sandero Access because of the manual wind up windows.. drive throughs, car park ticket machines.. I don't think I'd get the windows up and down quick enough! I guess that's ruled out.

It's still PANDA vs. The rest. Panda's are my favourite, but I'm always interested in you guys opinions on the 'competition' out there

SB1500 said:

It'll be for commuting to your part of the country 2 days a week Wee Smurf! Something that'll sit well in traffic then! ;-) haha

Click to expand...

In that case, coffee meet!

I've been really looking at them all, and by god, it seems nobody gives a crap about making a good small car other than Fiat. They really are 'budget' choices, you don't get the impression anybody buys them because they want them, but rather because they can't afford any bigger?! Why is it like this?!

The Aygo, old and new. Old one is terrible inside, looks like a poorly produced toy. Even for a Toyota?! They're the same as the C1 and 107/8 :-/ The inside of them are like vans, basic, cold.. I can't take a liking to them.

The VW/Seat/Skodas, well, I'm not a fan anyway. But the UP! etc, two things annoy me about them, the inside of the cabin shows painted bodywork!? Yuk. Original Ford Ka much?! Secondly... a 2013 car with WIND UP WINDOWS?! and they're meant to be better than Fiat's small cars?! Even the basic Panda's have electric windows now.

The Dacias, well, wind up windows, exposed staples in the boot floor, as much as I take a liking to them, I am put off by the quality and I can't tell if their engines will live up to many miles and abuse either.

The Koreans (Kia/Hyundai) the ones I'd be able to afford aren't the latest models and I've heard terrible things from past owners of them, they seem to be very poorly designed. I even have first hand experience with the past i10.

The Ford Ka (not newest) is tempting, good build quality, Fiat engine, but the fact it's PLASTERED WITH FLOWERS all over the interior etc .. Plus everyone I look at on the Ford Used site seems to have had run ins with kerbs as the wheel trims always look abused! Strange observation..

I can't afford a decent Honda Jazz, a shame, but an old one and it's not much of an improvement over my Panda at the minute!

I even looked at Smart cars, but I think getting a new car to cope with 140 mile round trips and a Smart car is a poor, poor choice.

The Nissan Micra, not too fussed about the design. I'm not sure if they're as good as other Japanese makes or as reliable as older Nissans so unless someone told me otherwise I have no reason to put too much faith in them.

The Corsa, well, I want to like it but having driven one a few times over the past few months, the Panda has always felt so much better when I got in it again in comparison.. much more responsive, quick off the mark etc. Not sure I'd sink money into a Corsa as it's quite, uninspiring?

Suzuki's choices don't seem too good, I like the little Alto but nobody - even owners- have anything good to say about it.

It's really looking like, based on how good my Panda is, the new one is the way to go... Always open to the other options but not 'taken away' by any of them so far.

SB1500 said:

The Dacias, well, wind up windows, exposed staples in the boot floor, as much as I take a liking to them, I am put off by the quality and I can't tell if their engines will live up to many miles and abuse either.

Click to expand...

If you spend £7,000+ on a Dacia you would have front electric windows, an it is a lot bigger then the other cars you are looking at.
The boot is massive! ( exposed staples? My boot was fully carpeted, didn't notice staples. )

SB1500 said:

The Nissan Micra, not too fussed about the design. I'm not sure if they're as good as other Japanese makes or as reliable as older Nissans so unless someone told me otherwise I have no reason to put too much faith in them.

Click to expand...

The current Mircra is terrible, my mum bought a 2015 when I got my Sandero, its louder inside the build quality is the same if not maybe worse, the plastics don't just feel cheap but also feel fragile, witch is something that you never feel in the Sandero.
Micra is literally a tin can & I loved the old ones!

SB1500 said:

Suzuki's choices don't seem too good, I like the little Alto but nobody - even owners- have anything good to say about it.

Click to expand...

I have driven the 2009 Alto, and the current Celerio and the seating position feels very much the same as the Panda, they feel more basic but they seem like they would be decent little cars.

I am a big fan of the new Ignis, if you haven't looked at those.

SB1500 said:

It's really looking like, based on how good my Panda is, the new one is the way to go... Always open to the other options but not 'taken away' by any of them so far.

Click to expand...

Pandas have a lot going for them, Just make a short list based on your needs and budget and go give them a drive!

SB1500 said:

I've been really looking at them all, and by god, it seems nobody gives a crap about making a good small car other than Fiat. They really are 'budget' choices, you don't get the impression anybody buys them because they want them, but rather because they can't afford any bigger?!

Click to expand...

I think the problem is more your budget than the cars .

£5k even £6k is not a lot of money these days and you're looking for new or nearly new.

Additionally if you're looking to find something just like the panda then of course the only car that will fit that bill is a panda

AndyRKett said:

I think the problem is more your budget than the cars .

£5k even £6k is not a lot of money these days and you're looking for new or nearly new.

Additionally if you're looking to find something just like the panda then of course the only car that will fit that bill is a panda

Click to expand...

Do you think it would be wise, based on how much I actually like my current car, to go to the next iteration?

Some people say don't do it. Try something new. But it's a highly involved decision so I have to live with that decision! Therefore that's why I side with the Panda 9 times out of 10.

SB1500 said:

Do you think it would be wise, based on how much I actually like my current car, to go to the next iteration?

Some people say don't do it. Try something new. But it's a highly involved decision so I have to live with that decision! Therefore that's why I side with the Panda 9 times out of 10.

Click to expand...

I would have bought a new Panda in 2015 if the dealer was better.

I've had the older 169 Panda (and the one before that) and there are a few still in the family, I now have 3 newer Pandas.

I know I'm writing this in the wrong section, but in my opinion the newer ones are a better car overall, sorry.

The major improvement is the way they ride.
The interior has a slightly better feel to it as well and when you put the two togther it's a nicer place to be when out and about.

Drawbacks?
Well the later euro 6 engine isn't as good as the euro 5 version before it.
It's not a peppy and feels a bit strangled when the revs climb.
Though it does feel slightly more torquey lower in the rpm range.

The euro 5 revs a lot freer, but you'd only realy notice it jumping from one to the other.

Highlights?
The TA engine, if you car considering a newer Panda, you just have to have a test drive in one.
It's a bit bonkers, but it does add some character!

We've been looking at a replacement for her in door's Lounge and while in the Renault dealership looking at Captur's, we had a good poke around the Sandero, though we looked at the 2017 Stepway, since than the Sandero and Dacia have taken my interest a little.

Dacia have been about for years but it's only until recently that they have started to produce RHD models (for/in India) and export them here.
There was a plan to launch them a lot earlier, but worldwide ecomonics took a down turn and the plan was put back.

The Sandero we've been getting here is their second Sandero model, which for 2017 they have just revised.
So they've been about a lot longer than most people think.

Sure there are some old school Renault parts, but they're now starting to shed some of these parts for the later stuff.
The old Renault 1.2 four pot is being dropped for the newer 3 pot 1.0 SCe 75, they are also available with the latest Renault 90hp TCe engine.

The DCi diesel engines were actually a join Nissan/Renault project and appear in nearly every modern Renault and Nissan.

So yes, most will tell you it's budget (I tend to think value), but the underpinnings aren't as prehistoric and everyone thinks.

They are also quite reliable, after all, they were designed and built to withstand less favourable roads and climates than ours (though ours roads aren't far ahead these days).

The Access model is the headline grabber at £5995, it draws customers to the dealers.
It's very spartan, but there's less to go wrong!
I think all 169 Panda came with cental locking, Active's on the key, and models above are a remote.
The Access has a key to lock/unlock the drivers door, the rest are manually unlocked/locked from inside with pop up buttons!
If you can live with that, it's fairly easy to fit your own headunit, fitting kits are quite easy and cheap to get hold of.

Though it would probably make sense to push the boat out for an Ambiance model, it's still cheap at £6345 and I've seen a couple of quid knocked off that on Carwow!

Owners reports are usually very good.
There are a few at my work and owners tend to treat them as disposable white goods.
If you think, our Lounge has already lost £6k over three years and is out of warranty, a fiver more than a Sandero Access and that would have another two years warranty!

They have quite a lot of room in them, the boot is very large for the class.
The back seats are quite usable too, much better than the Panda and it's contemporaries.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/our-cars/dacia-sandero/