General Made trade; dismayed

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General Made trade; dismayed

fiataccompli

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In July I was unfortunately involved in a collision which caused my beloved little 100HP to be written off. We had together covered over 60,000 miles without a missed beat. I was, as the saying is, gutted.

So almost immediately I had another 100HP in my sights, but Mrs Pete said “oh, you don’t want to be driving around in a 9-year-old car. You want to get something newer. We can afford it.”

Said I “but I love the Panda. Everything about it is ideal”.

Quoth she: “Aah, it’s really old. You’ll find a newer car is so much better. I guarantee it. Here’s my business card - call me”. Well, no, she didn’t say the bit about the business card, but otherwise she did as good a job as any pointy-shoed car salesman.

Come to a rub, I have replaced it - since I needed something immediately to get to work in - with a Seat Mii, which is broadly a rebadged Volkswagen Up! which has been soundly beaten with the ugly stick by Seat, and which is supposedly the “class-leading small modern town car” and probably the closest modern thing to a Panda.

You know what? I think - gulp - I have made a mistake here. The Seat can't hold a candle to the ten-year old Panda. Seriously. After, granted, only a few months' experience, I admit there is nothing fatally wrong with the Seat, and the ride is excellent. But, if you're familiar with the ergonomic concept of FLOW, you'll know what I mean. Everything in the Fiat was where it should be, and is Just So. The Seat reminds me, by comparison, of driving an early eighties hatchback. Why it gets such good reviews is a mystery to me.

Whereas the 100HP was a car that I found difficult to fault in any way, from the big stuff like the enthusiastic engine, the rock-solid brakes and the general fine build quality, right down to the small details - the incredibly ergonomic dashboard, the awesome heater and the fact that it doesn’t buzz and beep at you. Complaints I have are incredibly minimal - err, the top of the back bumper is horizontal and collects dirt. The speed-limit warning is unnecessarily fiddly to activate. That's about it.

The Seat, by comparison (and despite being the 'iTech' version, which is a name that is as irritatingly faux-moderne as it is dishonest) as it has about as much technology as a teaspoon. Where are the electrically adjustable mirrors; the height-adjustable seat (currently I am driving round propped up by a horrid foam squab which looks as though it has been lifted from a retirement home); the four wheel disc brakes, the get-you-home headlights; the space-saver spare wheel; the radio that gets louder at higher speeds; the winding-down back windows; the door pockets that don’t rattle like a castanet salesman when you put something in them; the self-closing windows (still active after ignition off :)) or the heater vent for each hand, so one hand doesn’t end up frozen while the other is chargrilled?

Bloddy nowhere, that's where.

So I'm seriously thinking about moving back to the Panda fold. Thing is, though, how would I work it financially? Normally you go to a dealer with a clapped out car and they give you a reasonable something, because they want to shift a newer and more expensive car. Would any dealer give a worthwhile price when taking in a used-but-newer-and-more-expensive car against an older model?

If I do it privately, how do I avoid getting ripped off during either or both ends of the trade?

Bear in mind also that I need to swing the whole thing past Mrs Pete, who will not be in favour.

Another question - dearly though I loved the performance side of the 100HP, I thought the Mk2 Panda was such a brilliant package that I could be tempted by a non-100HP model. But which one? Which is the 100HP's closest kin in terms of spirit, and also generosity of kit?

Well, there you go. Tomorrow brings another boring trip to work in the horrid boring Seat. What to do… what to do…

Pete
 
Whenever I have to sell the idea of getting a panda to the wife I will make sure she's kept happy for a while prior, then making sure she's slept well, then start randomly talking about it, and then start showing adds I've found, then make sure she's getting lots or random gifts - you get the drift, manipulate so hard that she sees through it, forget about it, and then comes up with it as if it's her own idea... or something along those lines. chocolate to her every time you spot a panda on the road - click training her into liking them...?

You will likely get a better price selling to a private than having a dealer in between who needs to make a profit and provide warranty.. - as to how to go about that I dont know, have never done it. - but as a buyer, good pictures of a way cleaner than necerssary car, and lots of them, also be neutral in describing the thing, get all the details in there, is there 5 or 6 airbags, esp, can it be turned off? etc etc...

Edit: after showing this post to her, she reminded me I promised her a cat if we got another Panda...
 
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1. Any trader will give you bottom book. No question. A private sale you may yield more.


2. We have the 100hp and the 1.2 Dynamic. There's no real similarity in performance and the handling is softer. That said, the 1.2 Dynamic costs £30 a year to tax and averages 45mpg (versus £165 and 36mpg).


3. Kit wise, the Eleganza had climate and often Bluetooth/phone. But this is Euro4 engine cos the tax is higher.


3. The very last of the 100hp models would have been registered early 2011. I know that cos I've have one from new


4. Have you tried a Mk4 Panda Twinair? All the torque and some of the power plus zero tax.
 
4. Have you tried a Mk4 Panda Twinair? All the torque and some of the power plus zero tax.

That's where I'd be looking.

The Twinair in my 4x4 is mental, even with the drawback of the low first gear of the 4x4 (2wd's don't have this).

It has an oddity about it that not everyone will love, but it has enough shove to make you giggle.

It isn't a sporty car but it's happy to have it's neck wrung, though it's happier when you just ride the torque in higher gears and when it's on boost, it's performance it very additive.

Handling wise, the later Pandas do handle better than the standard Mk3's, they control body roll a lot better and with 15" wheels soak the bumps better and ride well.

Discounts on new shouldn't be hard to come by either if you know where to look.

We looked long and hard at Ups, Miis and Citigoes a while back.
Space wise they weren't bad for such a small car, but the 3 pot strum, also the lash and rattle from the gearboxes put me off along with some of the fit and finish of the cabin.

Another car that might suit is the Suzuki Swift Sport, though you'll pay a lot more for one.
 
Yes, I'd imagine that the latest Panda 2WD Twinair would give a similar fun driving experience, but we must accept that the old 100HP was the last proper buzzy go-cart machine that is likely to be built.

Although I regretted the upsizing that Fiat did going from the classically small Mk3 to the bigger Mk4, I've always enjoyed the driving experience and look and feel of the latest version when hiring them in Italy.

The Twinair 2-pot gives a simulation of thrashing a classic 125 2-stroke scooter.
 
How about a 500? That's the wheel track used for the latest Panda. They all use the same floor pan/structure.

How able are you for doing your own maintenance work?

Yes an older car will have problems but for that reason it should be cheap.

Yes many 100HP Pandas will have been thrashed but there are always signs.

Yes the electrics are likely to give hassle. But most issues are wear and tear along with chafed wires and connectors. I've just noticed one on the loom below the wiper arms where its rubbed on a bracket. Thankfully no metal contact.

There should be virtually no body shell corrosion, unless its been crash repaired. Workshops do not always do a proper internal corrosion treatment.

Other parts do rot - back axle is a good example. You need a good torch and a fine tooth comb. Be prepared to jack up any car you consider buying at and look properly underneath. If the axle is bad knock the price down. The good news is big stuff like the axle is repairable and £80 will get the whole axle grit blasted and zinc metal sprayed.

Choose carefully, consider it a project and you could have a great car. Consider it a daily driver while you fix the issues and you will be sorely disappointed.

BTW, I really fancy one of these but space and time to do all the work rule it out. The Panda is simple pimple in comparison.

CitCXGTI-Jamie-Lip_2534440k.jpg
 
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Tomorrow brings another boring trip to work in the horrid boring Seat. What to do… what to do…

Pete

I agree, I don't understand the rave reviews for the Up, Citigo and Mii. Out of curiosity, how have you financed the Mii and does this help or hinder you swapping out the car?

I'm another fan of the twinair and currently have an 85TA Fiat 500 Lounge which was a cosmetic preference over the more practical Panda. It's worth taking one on an extended test drive as the engine is unusual to use but really delivers in the smiles per mile category.

Finally, and I've mentioned this in another thread, VED for combustion and hybrid engine cars will change significantly for vehicles registered from April 2017 onwards. No more zero or £30 tax bands . . . .
 
I agree, I don't understand the rave reviews for the Up, Citigo and Mii. Out of curiosity, how have you financed the Mii and does this help or hinder you swapping out the car?

Well the Mii was bought with old-fashioned cash money. So I don't know if that helps or hinders me, but somehow I want to wangle buying a 100HP and disposing of the Mii without losing a fortune. Thorny one.

I'm another fan of the twinair and currently have an 85TA Fiat 500 Lounge which was a cosmetic preference over the more practical Panda. It's worth taking one on an extended test drive as the engine is unusual to use but really delivers in the smiles per mile category.

I'm not totally resistant to the idea, but the newer Panda doesn't do much for me, and the 500 isn't roomy enough. Plus I'm not personally convinced that a two-pot with a turbo is going to have the longevity of the awesome FIRE engine.

Finally, and I've mentioned this in another thread, VED for combustion and hybrid engine cars will change significantly for vehicles registered from April 2017 onwards. No more zero or £30 tax bands . . . .

That's a good point - I hadn't heard about that. Looks like it won't affect older cars though.
 
How able are you for doing your own maintenance work?

Not more than minimal, but do I have a good local garage. They kept my lovely 100HP going for 9 years until its - choke - sad demise. I miss that damn car every day.

Choose carefully, consider it a project and you could have a great car. Consider it a daily driver while you fix the issues and you will be sorely disappointed.

Well, quite, but my late lamented Panda was a GREAT daily drive!

BTW, I really fancy one of these...

Brave man... that's a wafty old luxo-barge!
 
The 100HP was tremendous value when new but by now, most will be well past their best and the few remaining really good ones probably won't be all that cheap. If you could still get a new one off the forecourt for under £8000 like in 2011 it'd be a no-brainer, but you can't. It'll be at least six years old, and running a 6+yr old Fiat without a high level of mechanical competence could prove costly and is not for the feint hearted.

You'll likely lose a lot of money on the current car however you go about selling it; late model run-of-the-mill cars are very difficult to sell privately as most folks in this market want dealer facilities like SOGA protection, warranties and finance.

Start by typing the registration number into WBAC and see what the figure is; if you can't make it work at or close to that figure, my advice would be to stick with what you have for another year or two. Even if you do manage to get a private sale at a good price, you can't just go out and buy a good value 100HP at the drop of a hat, so making the deal hang together may be logistically complicated, as well as financially and domestically challenging.

Sorry if this comes across as unduly negative. but I worry that you may be chasing a rose-tinted memory.
 
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Well the Mii was bought with old-fashioned cash money. So I don't know if that helps or hinders me, but somehow I want to wangle buying a 100HP and disposing of the Mii without losing a fortune. Thorny one.

At least you can control how and where you sell it with no addition of negative equity on the finance. On the downside (as JRK mentions) it's a buyer's market and the Mii isn't a niche car.

I'm not totally resistant to the idea, but the newer Panda doesn't do much for me, and the 500 isn't roomy enough. Plus I'm not personally convinced that a two-pot with a turbo is going to have the longevity of the awesome FIRE engine.

I know what you mean about the new Panda. I like the Cross but otherwise it doesn't appeal in the same way as the previous generation Panda. Time will tell but I don't think the twinair is as highly stressed as it's made out to be though.


That's a good point - I hadn't heard about that. Looks like it won't affect older cars though.
Correct, it is only newly registered cars. Register a TA on 31.03.17 and it's free road tax, register the following day it's £140 per annum. Not as big a difference as a BMW i8 but still eye-watering.
 
fiataccompli

The Seat Mii isn't a car, it's a Washing Machine. I'm surprised you could get it from a dealer outside of Currys! It's a bit like any appliance, you use it but it has no joy, character or passion to it! It looks like the VW Up, and Skoda Sh*tigo the same way a Hotpoint fridge looks like a Beko and so on! ;)

Sadly, finding a 2003-2012 Panda in good shape would be quite difficult, but if you could find a 2012 model with a full dealer service history maybe that's your best bet?
 
I really don't see why a well cared for 100hp shouldn't give you many years of good service. You can easily pick up a sub 50000 mile car for between 3 and 3.5k.

It may take a while to find exactly the right one and yes it's always possible to be unlucky and pick a lemon, but choose wisely; full service history, minimal owners, optimal condition etc and you should be fine.

I'm sure your garage aren't going to be phased by looking after the exact same model of car they kept on the road for you all those years just because it's a bit older now!..apart from any age related corrosion issues, of which the rear beam seems to be the main victim, a low mile, correctly maintained car surely isn't really a massive risk?

And IF it all goes a bit wrong you can rest assured that at least you didn't drop 15-20k on a German sports car with inherent catastrophic engine issues!

Life's too short to be tootling about in something that's not doing it for you.:)
 
Realistically, the next best thing to a Panda 100HP is a 500 1.4, they stopped making them a few years ago but there are tidy low mileage ones available now at a reasonable price.

They aren't as raw and rorty as the Panda but most components were up graded or optimised, and they are another "last of the line" old-school (ish) Fiat...
 
The 100HP was tremendous value when new but by now, most will be well past their best and the few remaining really good ones probably won't be all that cheap. If you could still get a new one off the forecourt for under £8000 like in 2011 it'd be a no-brainer, but you can't. It'll be at least six years old, and running a 6+yr old Fiat without a high level of mechanical competence could prove costly and is not for the feint hearted.

You'll likely lose a lot of money on the current car however you go about selling it; late model run-of-the-mill cars are very difficult to sell privately as most folks in this market want dealer facilities like SOGA protection, warranties and finance.

This is what my head is telling me, and you are in many ways quite right. However it was my head that told me to buy the Seat, and that was not a correct decision.


Sorry if this comes across as unduly negative. but I worry that you may be chasing a rose-tinted memory.

It's not negative - it is realistic and sensible. But I don't think my view is rose-tinted. My view is that every day I miss the 100HP for its faultless behaviour over 60,000 miles, its joyful, grin-inducing performance, its well-thought-out interior and countless other points both large and small which are missing from the Beko... sorry, the Seat.
 
I really don't see why a well cared for 100hp shouldn't give you many years of good service. You can easily pick up a sub 50000 mile car for between 3 and 3.5k.

I'm sure your garage aren't going to be phased by looking after the exact same model of car they kept on the road for you all those years just because it's a bit older now!..apart from any age related corrosion issues, of which the rear beam seems to be the main victim, a low mile, correctly maintained car surely isn't really a massive risk?

Life's too short to be tootling about in something that's not doing it for you.:)

...and this is by comparison is what my heart is telling me!

And IF it all goes a bit wrong you can rest assured that at least you didn't drop 15-20k on a German sports car with inherent catastrophic engine issues!

That's what happened to a mate of mine. He suddenly and unexpectedly went from an ancient moss-covered Mondeo to a BMW Z4, a beautiful-looking piece of kit (early mid-life crisis, I reckon), on which some complicated piece of Teutonic electronic wizardry decided to go bang, four days after the warranty expired. He's still paying for that.
 
fiataccompli

The Seat Mii isn't a car, it's a Washing Machine. I'm surprised you could get it from a dealer outside of Currys! It's a bit like any appliance, you use it but it has no joy, character or passion to it! It looks like the VW Up, and Skoda Sh*tigo the same way a Hotpoint fridge looks like a Beko and so on! ;)

The Seat... sorry to bang on... is at this time of year, disgracefully and disgustingly WET inside. It IS like driving about in a washing machine. All the glass is misted up, to a quite dangerous point. The Fiat by comparison was hardly ever misted up, and what mist there was could be dispelled in seconds by the wonderful one-touch demist setting. Unlike the Seat, the Fiat had a hot air vent for each hand, so one hand doesn’t end up frozen while the other is chargrilled. If I ever bought a Rolls and the heater was a good as the Panda's, I'd think "well, that's what you're paying for".

The speedometer on the Seat is the size of a dinner plate. The top quarter of it is therefore obscured by the steering wheel. The rev counter and fuel gauge though are the size of a lady's watch. The trip computer stuff is a horrid jumble of random red (why red? Red is the warning colour. I see it in my peripheral vision and think “uh-oh, what’s broken? Oh no… it's 12 degrees”).

I could go on but it will angry up my blood too much. I'll just say, if you're driving about in a 100HP... enjoy!
 
You have a car so keep a careful look out for another 100HP. There are good ones about. If you find one that's not ideal you can fix what's needed and then swap over and sell Seat tumble dryer at a convenient time.

All the usual caveats apply, but with care you should be able to find a good 100HP.
 
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