Hey all.. Been a while!

Asked about this before ages ago but the captcha image thing isn't working so can't search the forum.. Only Google.

Anyway, 3 years ago a put a new clutch in my mothers panda and it was fine although not perfect as it ideally needed the relearn procedure done but wasn't bad enough for my mam to keep nagging me to do it lol

Fast forward to today I drove her car and it is terrible! I can feel the clutch going in and out as it can't decide what to do with it, it just surges back and fourth!

I remember trying to do it ages ago but couldn't find out how to do it on FES (full version)

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great! My sisters passed her test this week and is insured to drive the panda but doesn't want too as it's surging so badly.

Cheers!

I had this trouble on my Panda ,which turned out to be air in the HP hydraulic circuit. Apparently it can be cured by using Examiner to purge the air, but I was given a method to do the same thing by switching on the ignition without starting the engine and then rapidly putting the gear lever from N to D 15 times . This does just what Examiner does. It worked the first time but when I had trouble the second time it didn't work , but there again Examiner didn't. So I sold it.

Great info I'll give that a go cheers!

I've already put a new box in this at a shockingly low 60k.. Now nearing 100k and she's had it from new although it hasn't been a bad car to be fair

The Duologic has a reputation for poor reliability but that's really because drivers treat it like a normal slush box auto so the clutch gets hammered.

I really liked my mother's Panda and regret selling it when she passed away.

IMO there are two issues.
(1) the control computer does a full alignment every time its taken out of neutral which can take ages especially when a traffic light goes green so it had to be kept in gear or have it effectively drop the clutch if you drove off too soon.
(2) the gear lever with forwards to shift up was totally backwards to my head. I would have quickly found a way to swap the wires around.

I was surprised the clutch was still fairly OK after 65k miles of town driving but obviously it was replaced when I changed the gearboxes.

I consider it the right way around for me possibly as previous cars were the same way.

My mother doesn't seem to mind it being tje way it is now to be honest lol! Possibly got used to it surging. I hope MEP can sort it out

As said the "manual" shift lever positions did not suit me, but I'm not used to auto cars. If I had one that bothered me enough I would re wire the lever switches.

Everyone else - just ignore my mutterings.

I liked the Duologic and would certainly consider another one.

x Alex x said:

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great! My sisters passed her test this week and is insured to drive the panda but doesn't want too as it's surging so badly.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Should be able to connect to the gearbox ECU and its under that section

STILL haven't sorted this lol! I'm doing some other work on it tomorrow so I'm going to order a new license for MES to get the latest version.

Have read a few different things about how to do it, getting it up to temp, purging the air out and driving it as it's re learning.

I thought you just started it and it clunked away for a bit while it relearned? That's how it looked on an Alfa selepeed on YouTube anyway

The trouble with Dualogic gearboxs is that they learn your driving style. My partner drives our a panda a lot and i have noticed she bunny hops when parking really close to our garage wall rather than being ready with the hand brake and approaching at a slow speed. I have noticed after shes done this clutch control goes out of the window( clutch goes in and out and you cant slip it)with not very smooth gear changes and not being able to balance like a manual on the clutch. It takes a 10 mile journey for the gear box to relearn. I find that you can with practice balance the car on slight inclines like a manual with the throttle. It should also pull in first and second when crawling in traffic with no throttle like a normal automatic. On light throttle the gear changes should be very smooth and hardly noticeable but you can aid this by lifting off like a manual.

Yeah they do but this is more than that, it bounces back and forwards a lot when pulling away, would never be able to hold on a hill it would probably stall after it let the clutch in and out rapidly. I had it for a few days recently and tried everything I'd seen online to get it to learn without MES but it was just the same.

I've read a purge and relearn will fix it so fingers crossed

Can't find any useful info on the Dualogic at the moment, but there are 2 terms which I made a note of when dealing with one a while ago... "clutch degradation index" and "end of line" service.
Google "Dualogic" and one or both of these for more info.
As far as I can remember, the Selespeed clutch is physically adjustable, but the Dualogic isn't, so the procedures will be different.
Hope that helps.

Thanks for that! Yeah I recall seeing all of the above mentioned on various searches

It was no bother up until 75k when I put a new clutch in but I'm assuming because it wasn't relearnt it has gave problems which is fair enough I suppose.. Its on nearly 100k and hasn't really been any trouble apart from this

Just reading this and noticed that people are suggesting, I think, that holding with the automated clutch on hills, like with a standard manual is ... erm, no. Don't do this.

You should never hold a manual car on the clutch, it will overheat and eventually destroy the clutch facings, and wear the bearings too. Women at work do this and just keep their cars gently rocking backwards and forwards while they wait for the traffic to move. I find this mechanical ignorance difficult to bear.

As an aside, they also think kerbs are part of the road to be driven into at will, but that's another thing.

DSG gearboxes need to be treated equally carefully. Never creep with them or you will destroy the clutch facings - very very expensive. Stop, hold the car on the foot brake, and then when it's clear to go, move off. Obviously the minutiae of parking manoeuvres make some creeping necessary, but this should be
minimised.

Traditional tongue converter automatics can be allowed to creep, a little, and so can CVTs, but that's all.

I'm interested in this because the new Suzuki Ignis is offered with an automated manual 'automatic' gearbox in Europe. It comes with a CVT in Australia, where automatics are practically the default gearbox, as in America. The automated manual that Suzuki uses in many markets is a breathed on version of the Fiat gearbox, hence my interest. For what it's worth the new version is supposed to be better than earlier versions - smoother - and obviously cheaper and simpler but still not really as good as a proper automatic. I've had Fiats, three of them, but the reliability did for me in the end, suspension and electrical problems mostly, so I'm now on my third trouble free Suzuki. Oh, and Suzuki's DSG is a modified version of Fiat's six speed, so I hope the mods are good ones! Recalibration mainly I think.

Anyway, it's good to hear that these automated manuals can last when looked
after. I must drive one, although I do prefer a good CVT or DSG. The DSGs are superb for accelerating fast because in Sport the changes are instant

I think the hill holding was just to get the ecu to relearn the bite point, did it today and it has massively improved my mother is happy but it still needs to go onto MES.

She's owned the panda from new, had 2 suspension arms and 2 rear struts, not bad going! I did the clutch but to be fair it would probably kept going a little longer. It had 75k of heavy town driving in traffic.

Here's a video of how it was, sorry it's not great but you can see how it rocked back and fourth.. All I did was hold it on a hill 3 times for a few seconds.. I didn't like doing it to the clutch but a one off won't harm it I guess.

[ame]https://youtu.be/h3AuWNi6sbg[/ame]

irc said:

As far as I can remember, the Selespeed clutch is physically adjustable, but the Dualogic isn't, so the procedures will be different.

Click to expand...

Selespeed and Dualogic are one of the same. What you refer to may be a gearbox specific thing.

My understanding is that the 6 speed Bravo and the Stilo Selespeed systems are different to each other and that the 5 speed systems on the Panda/500/GP etc are all basically the same - although I could be wrong.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Selespeed and Dualogic are one of the same. What you refer to may be a gearbox specific thing.

My understanding is that the 6 speed Bravo and the Stilo Selespeed systems are different to each other and that the 5 speed systems on the Panda/500/GP etc are all basically the same - although I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the Alfa 156 Selespeed has an adjustable clutch actuator rod, and the Fiat Panda Dualogic doesn't. I remember them being a bit similar but nowhere near identical.

But it was a decade between working on them, so I could be wrong.

No idea about the 6 speed Fiat ones though as I've never pulled one apart. Perhaps in another decade or so....