hiya

how difficult / impossible is it to replace a fiat panda engine?

I pretty much fried my panda on the weekend: coolant pipe popped off when i was stuck in traffic, i didnt realise, no more coolant in engine, feeling hot hot hot and then panda went pop. temperatue gauge wasnt indicating any issues, was resting at halfway like it always does(did) even when, ya know, hot hot hot. plus im a novice driver, so i know nuffin john snow!

anyways im just trying to explore some crazy options... as well as some sane ones... so yeah, would it be an impossible task?

What engine?
1.1, 1.2 both fairly easy as long as it is like-for-like.

1.3 not so much. Unless you have really long arms and amazingly small hands.

Change timing belt/tensioner/water pump and clutch while engine is out. Also sump if needed.

Are you sure it is knackered? Not just head gasket?
Easier to remove, skim, change head gasket & put back together if it is not dead.

FelFilth said:

hiya

how difficult / impossible is it to replace a fiat panda engine?

I pretty much fried my panda on the weekend: coolant pipe popped off when i was stuck in traffic, i didnt realise, no more coolant in engine, feeling hot hot hot and then panda went pop. temperatue gauge wasnt indicating any issues, was resting at halfway like it always does(did) even when, ya know, hot hot hot. plus im a novice driver, so i know nuffin john snow!

anyways im just trying to explore some crazy options... as well as some sane ones... so yeah, would it be an impossible task?

Click to expand...

It does require a well equipped toolshed, i did it knowing not much last summer using youtube videos and a haynes manual... took me a week to do the take-out part, a single day to put it in again.. and im doing it all over again this coming weekend on my other panda..

I would say you need a motor hoist a good set of sockets some rachet wrenches and an assortment of screwdrivers and a good floorjack (or two) change the clutch while you are in there..

You can hire an engine hoist from tool / plant hire shops - as I'd imagine they're quite expensive and you'd only need it the once!

SB1500 said:

You can hire an engine hoist from tool / plant hire shops - as I'd imagine they're quite expensive and you'd only need it the once!

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Thats a very good idea.. but look into prices,for me i had to pay more in delivery than it was to buy a brand new one (doesnt need to be expensive heavy duty to lift the mighty powerhouse of a panda)

You might be able to find a low miles engine and box at a breakers. If you want to fit a 1.2 into a 1.1 car it will work but you'll need the associated ECU ignition lock immobiliser and instrument pack. Best to keep it the same.

But as others said, it might only be the head gasket. Take the top off. If the pistons are ok and the bores are clean get the head skimmed and refit with new gasket.

Lots of How-to's on the forum.

Thanks for all the replies!

He's a 1.1 Panda. I'd say he definitely is buggered. We turned him on the next day and he just revved himself to the max, without us touching anything, bar the key, of course!

We found an engine with all the extra computer-ie bits as well for 300 quid at a breakers. It has a 3 week warranty as well so incase it doesn't work, we can take it back. Probably gonna go for that. My Mum has a heap of tools and the hoisty thing for the engine, so she'll be able to help :slayer:
So at worst, I'll learn a thing or two, at best, I'll have my Panda resurrected!

Thanks a mill!:worship:

Interesting. Don't see a connection between high revving from switch on and a coolant pipe piping off ?????


If there is no water in the oil or oil in the water. Smell of fumes from the coolant or coolant pipes instantly going rock hard I would suspect the engine had survived. Once the over revving is sorted you could drive it to a friendly garage foe a compression test.

FelFilth, when the engine overheated did the engine start knocking, did the oil warning light come on, did the engine stop on it's own or did you turn it off ? If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes then the engine is probably toast...sorry about the bad pun. If the answer is no then it may not be as bad as you think, repair all the cooling problems, hoses etc, fill with water temporarily. Before starting it, whip the air cleaner off and check that the throttle isn't stuck open for some reason. Leave the air cleaner off for a moment and try starting it again, still revving it's nut off ? Yes ? Probably an air leak somewhere which could be a major or minor fault. If it doesn't rev, let it idle and see what happens but keep an eye out for big water leaks and check what the temperature gauge is doing, if it starts moving past half way , switch off and seek professional advice.

Does this engine have a plastic inlet manifold? Those that do will often melt at the gasket face if the engine properly overheats. Causes air leaks and revving with a shut throttle.

If it's metal you'll have go over with a fine tooth comb to find the leak.

These cars really would benefit from a low coolant level sensor. I seems that no indication of overheat from the temperature gauge is not unusual.

Good thinking Dave, I'd forgotten about the plastic inlet manifold, that'll be the air leak.
Sorry Koalar but the engine's almost certainly a gonna. Probably still worth checking but don't hold your breath.

FelFilth said:

Thanks for all the replies!

He's a 1.1 Panda. I'd say he definitely is buggered. We turned him on the next day and he just revved himself to the max, without us touching anything, bar the key, of course!

We found an engine with all the extra computer-ie bits as well for 300 quid at a breakers. It has a 3 week warranty as well so incase it doesn't work, we can take it back. Probably gonna go for that. My Mum has a heap of tools and the hoisty thing for the engine, so she'll be able to help :slayer:
So at worst, I'll learn a thing or two, at best, I'll have my Panda resurrected!

Thanks a mill!:worship:

Click to expand...

sounds like a component failure..rather than an engine failure




these are the bit's you'll be dealing with.. bit strange you didn't get the overtemp light on though..??

Im 90% sure there are separate temperature sensors for the gauge and ECU.

Watch coolant levels VERY closely.

One of these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Stai...484f8da74a2634d9116782&pid=100506&rk=1&rkt=1&

or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191986672274

Fitted to the coolant expansion tank will detect water level at up to 125 C. Fit it to switch a warning light at just above minimum level and you'll get early warning of water loss.

DaveMcT said:

Im 90% sure there are separate temperature sensors for the gauge and ECU.

Watch coolant levels VERY closely.

Click to expand...

Not on the 1.2

Just the one at the back of the engine green connector two wires direct to the ECU. its under the Air box.

Temperature gauge is driven from the body computer and get its information direct from the ECU. ECU also directly switches the fan on via a relay.

If all the water left the engine while the engine was hot and the sensor became dry. The ECU would see it was too low and the engine check light would come on and throw a P0115 error also the fans would switch on at the same time.

Hard to say how you could loose all you coolant while stood in traffic and not notice the smell of coolant, a light on the dash fans running fast and gauge reading zero. Especially in winter when the heater would be blowing cold also ????

Temp sensors don't work well when dry. If the coolant is there, but hot, it tells you, if the coolant drops below the sensor, they have to get so much hotter before they react. Always been a problem.

Some cars have had sensors fitted into blind holes in the head, so they do work on heat radiation, but using this type of sensor does not seem to have caught on with the manufacturers.

portland_bill said:

Temp sensors don't work well when dry. If the coolant is there, but hot, it tells you, if the coolant drops below the sensor, they have to get so much hotter before they react. Always been a problem.

Some cars have had sensors fitted into blind holes in the head, so they do work on heat radiation, but using this type of sensor does not seem to have caught on with the manufacturers.

Click to expand...

I think a float sensor like this in the coolant tank would be great idea and simple to fit.



There are many options (double floats, angled, short, long etc etc). Stainless type is safe to 125C. Get one of a suitable length, drill the the coolant tank and bolt in place with suitable sealant. It needs to switch before the level drops to the minimum mark. Wire to a dash warning light.

martroy said:

FelFilth, when the engine overheated did the engine start knocking, did the oil warning light come on, did the engine stop on it's own or did you turn it off ? If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes then the engine is probably toast...sorry about the bad pun. If the answer is no then it may not be as bad as you think, repair all the cooling problems, hoses etc, fill with water temporarily. Before starting it, whip the air cleaner off and check that the throttle isn't stuck open for some reason. Leave the air cleaner off for a moment and try starting it again, still revving it's nut off ? Yes ? Probably an air leak somewhere which could be a major or minor fault. If it doesn't rev, let it idle and see what happens but keep an eye out for big water leaks and check what the temperature gauge is doing, if it starts moving past half way , switch off and seek professional advice.

Click to expand...

The engine made a knocking noise towards the end when I tried to accelerate yeah. No lights came on, and I had a keen eye on them. I turned the engine off myself though. The revving issue came around after we had it towed home and tried to turn it on. So something probably melted to cause that?

Why would the coolant pipe pop off though? It's happened twice, both times when I was stuck in heavy traffic. The first time it happened I noticed it pretty quickly, I was stuck at some traffic lights and I could hear a gushing sound, probably all the coolant going on the floor! Luckily I was pretty much at home. The second time, I was suspicious, and I was at traffic lights again but facing downhill, I had a quick look at the road ahead to see if I could see anything, but I couldn't see anything or hear anything so I naively thought it was okay. It wasn't until I got onto the motorway that I realised something wasn't right as I couldn't get any power and I started to get a bad smell, so I stopped as soon as I could.

So is it something to do with pressure? If I'm sat in traffic? Surely the system has some way of releasing pressure without popping off the pipe? Is it likely that the pipe wasn't on completely or correctly? Is there some magic way to put the plastic clip underneath the coolant resevior on and make sure it doesn't come off again?

I like the idea of fitting that sensor.. Twud be an extra bit of reassurance. I think I'll definitely look into that, thanks!

I think the plan is to strip the engine down on the weekend and have a look at whats wrong and whats melted and if it's actually redeemable before buying a new engine. I'll make sure to take some pictures of the damage!

FelFilth, don't waste your time and money stripping the original motor, it's fritzed. The fact that you heard knocking means the bearings are damaged and that's before you look at things that may have been damaged by the excessive heat. Start looking for a tidy motor from a scrapped car but you need to check your complete cooling system before you drive it with the new motor. It seems it was over pressuring somehow, that needs to be sorted or your back to square one.

hat engine is toast. Two major overheats, knocking, loss of power. It's goosed.

Get the cooling system with the new engine if you can. At least, fit a new radiator and metal coolant pipe to the engine front.

Hoses wont pull off unless the clip is faulty. Over tightened worm clips can strip the thread grooves. Some time later they'll just slip off the hose and you know the rest.