hi
just bought a panda 1.3D 2005. i want to blanking the egr valve or completily eliminate it. i been looking online for a blanking plate but cant find one for the panda. please is there another way to disable it. also where is located. in the past i blanked a punto egr but i cant see it on the panda. is there a guide on the forum that i can use.
thanks

The usual method is to make a gasket with no hole through the middle.

Check the inlet manifold for carbon build up. Not uncommon in carefully driven engines.

For the last two years my Panda Multijet has had its egr disabled electronically. It is disconnected at the plug on the egr, and I have fooled the ecu by altering the maf/egr circuitry with a couple of resistors and a diode.

No problems so far, and a clean inlet manifold. There is an old thread on here somewhere that describes my mod.

Some don't agree with me, but I cannot think of a bigger piece of stop-gap bodgery than a system that puts polluted combustion products back into the otherwise clean inlet air/fuel mix!

If the Panda EGRvalve is anything like the 1.3 Grande Punto (which it probably is) it is an absolute pig to even get at. I understand that you have to take the inlet manifold off, my local expert keeps putting me off , suggests I should try a commercial chemical cleaner , but they won't give a guarantee , so I reckon I'll be trying the suggested disconnect route, if I can find the diagram . I would have thought that simply putting a resistor equivalent to the egr motor resistance might work. I'll have to get the AVO out , when it stops raining.

Sweetsixteen said:

For the last two years my Panda Multijet has had its egr disabled electronically. It is disconnected at the plug on the egr, and I have fooled the ecu by altering the maf/egr circuitry with a couple of resistors and a diode.

No problems so far, and a clean inlet manifold. There is an old thread on here somewhere that describes my mod.

Some don't agree with me, but I cannot think of a bigger piece of stop-gap bodgery than a system that puts polluted combustion products back into the otherwise clean inlet air/fuel mix!

Click to expand...

hi
yes i would like to just disconnect but i dont think i will be able to make the circuity. is there a place where i can buy it already made? pr should i try to buy a plate to blank it.

DavyP said:

If the Panda EGRvalve is anything like the 1.3 Grande Punto (which it probably is) it is an absolute pig to even get at. I understand that you have to take the inlet manifold off, my local expert keeps putting me off , suggests I should try a commercial chemical cleaner , but they won't give a guarantee , so I reckon I'll be trying the suggested disconnect route, if I can find the diagram . I would have thought that simply putting a resistor equivalent to the egr motor resistance might work. I'll have to get the AVO out , when it stops raining.

Click to expand...

The ECU does not monitor the EGR coil resistance or position to detect failure (or for anything else). This means putting a resistor inplace of the EGR coil will not stop the light coming on. The failure light comes on if EGR demand has been applied and the mass airflow does not change as expected. The circuit bodge (there is no other word for it) feeds part of the EGR demand signal into the MAF sensor circuit causing a false indication of changed airflow. This messes up the mixure making the emissions even worse. The EGR does not put anything into the cylinders that did not come from them in the first place.

Robert G8RPI.

mariop1 said:

hi
yes i would like to just disconnect but i dont think i will be able to make the circuity. is there a place where i can buy it already made? pr should i try to buy a plate to blank it.

Click to expand...

Please be aware that blanking or otherwise disabling the EGR (or any other emissions control system) makes the car illegal to use on the road and will probably invalidate your insurance (you have to declare modifications but you would be declaring something illegal). Personally it does not bother me what you do, but I do think you should have the information to make an informed decision.

Robert G8RPI.

Sweetsixteen said:

For the last two years my Panda Multijet has had its egr disabled electronically. It is disconnected at the plug on the egr, and I have fooled the ecu by altering the maf/egr circuitry with a couple of resistors and a diode.

No problems so far, and a clean inlet manifold. There is an old thread on here somewhere that describes my mod.

Some don't agree with me, but I cannot think of a bigger piece of stop-gap bodgery than a system that puts polluted combustion products back into the otherwise clean inlet air/fuel mix!

Click to expand...

hi
please can you look your pm.

Gr8pi is correct of course however
My wife's car is a seat Ibiza with one of the engines that Vw fiddled the emissions on,so we keep getting letters from Vw saying they are on the case and will be recalling it in soon to solve the pollution from it ..latest letter came a week ago and their no closer to calling it in so we keep on polluting I guess

you can buy a ready made egr valve blanking plate off ebay they only cost about £3

if you buy this type off ebay you do not have to take the egr valve right off just loosen the bolts and slide this blanking plate in the gap then tighten the bolts job done

DaveMcT said:

Check the inlet manifold for carbon build up. Not uncommon in carefully driven engines.

Click to expand...

Is this just a case of removing the airbox, disconnecting the inlet hose and having a peep inside?

Hi Robert. Thought you'd weigh in on this topic! I usually agree with your opinions, but not this time.

I run a Mercedes as well as a Panda Mulijet. Here's a photo of the Merc inlet manifold:

All that gunge has been caused by the EGR valve!

We would not think of driving around without an air filter or a fuel filter, because we want the cleanest fuel and air possible for our engines - and then some boffin who is hellbent on satisfying EU Regs decides that we need an EGR valve, and this is the result.
Who wants that mess in their inlet tract? It's like being careful about clean food and then eating it off a filthy plate.

Since my Merc has had the EGR valve electrically deleted, it runs clean again, as my Panda also does.
All the rest has been said before, but this is just personal evidence of the mess the EGR valve makes of our engines.

Hi @Sweetsixteen,
Interesting photos. Don't get me wrong, I've never said EGR's are a good idea, but blowing NOx out of our exhausts isn't a good idea either. While the "muck" in your intake does not look very nice and is almost certainly impeding the airflow and possibly jamming the swirl flaps, it's not the same as the contamination air filters stop. The muck is mostly fine soft carbon and it did come directly from the engine so will not cause any more damage to the cylinders. Air filters are designed to stop abrasive dust and dirt as well as larger contamination like leaves. Fuel filters stop contamination reaching the inside of pumps and injectors, not the outside. I don't like EGR but would not delete it on my car (I did fit the Fiat four hole restrictor/swirl plate to my 1.9 16V mJTD Croma and it seems to be an improvement) and certainly would not advertise it on a public forum if I did. My bugbear is people who promote EGR and or DPF deletion without advising that it is illegal.
P.S. the first car I owned that had EGR was British made in 1974, I owned it in 1984 and had a 2L 16V petrol engine. Any guesses?

Robert G8RPI.

rick500 said:

View attachment 172618 if you buy this type off ebay you do not have to take the egr valve right off just loosen the bolts and slide this blanking plate in the gap then tighten the bolts job done

Click to expand...

hi
i would like to blank the egr. however i looked in the panda and it is not very easy no much space to work. i was looking for a guide how to blank it either with a blanking plate or electronically but cant find one about fiat panda

As I see it the returned gasses pass through the egr to the inlet manifold, are in the diesels case sometimes black and sooty it's only when it meets the oily mist in the inlet manifold that it sticks to the sides of the manifold clogging it up now may be if the crankcase breather was to atmosphere it would pass through without this effect
However if the oily mist / black soot wasn't sticking inside the manifold it would pass straight in to the combustion chamber and then would be burnt and then stick to the exhaust valves possibly burning them out through overheating .but then your polluting with piston blow by gasses into the atmosphere.
It's a shame the egr and manifold cleaning aren't as easy to do as say change a set of plugs then it wouldn't be such a problem

Unfortunately, the damage caused by the EGR valve is more severe than many people realise.

The EGR valve is designed to reduce NOx by lowering the combustion temperature. It does this by feeding into the inlet tract a dirty mix of inert exhaust gases and abrasive contaminants, taken from the engine exhaust. The lower combustion temperature reduces engine efficiency and produces more particulates. Oil acidity is also increased, requiring more frequent oil changes if engine life is not to be reduced. It increases fuel consumption and decreases available power. Often a heavier right foot is used to try and compensate for the lost power, and this adds to fuel usage.

The crazy thing is, the EGR valve doesn’t work when the engine is cold, or when it’s idling or when it’s under load - so for much of the time it is not reducing Nox at all.

The valve itself gets gummed up and needs cleaning or replacing. The inlet tract gets gummed up (photo above), reducing efficiency still further. To help minimise particulates, a DPF is fitted, and the EGR soon gums this up nicely - that is why you need a regen every so often, which burns neat fuel. The DPF further reduces efficiency by adding back-pressure to the exhaust system.

it is without doubt responsible for premature wear in a number of components, which all have to be manufactured and replaced. Count in the down-time, breakdowns and increased maintenance, and it turns out to have a very wide-ranging and expensive environmental impact.

Thank goodness this piece of engineering bodgery is fast disappearing from latest engines now better solutions have been found (VVT or AdBlue)

That's why I have deleted mine. But Robert has a point - it would not be responsible of me to publish exactly how I did it (although if you google EGR delete you might find a load of info!)

My advice is just remove the solenoid from the end of the valve which is just the three star drive screws. Then spray wd40 or something like that over the valve/return spring, then grip the end of the valve with a small pair of pliers and work the valve in and out until it is completely free to return. Clean all the service spray out and then if you can use some copper grease spray to lubricate and work that the same way as you did with the service spray. Put it all back together and will be. I have done loads for people and it lasts for ages

I still think the restrictor plates (with 3 holes in preferably) are a good compromise. You don't have error light issues so don't need ECU re-maps or MAF bodges. The plates have two effects, they cause the ECU to open the valve fully which stops it jamming by wiping the whole length of the actutor and having more spring pressure a it start to close and secondly the increased velocity of the small jets promote mixing and keep the concentrated exhaust gasses away from the inlet walls were the slow boundary layer allows particles to settle and stick.

Robert G8RPI.

The EGR valve has been about since the 1960s when California smog began to get really bad. It's was even known as the smog valve!

As already said it does very little to reduce emissions (and never did) but there's a good chance it works better under test constitutions. Not because the manufacturers are/were cheating but because the tests didn't accurately mimic real life use of the vehicle.

Do not delete the crank case ventilation system. Blow by gasses can be pretty nasty.

The smog valve operates at low pressure so a gasket to the exhaust manifold with no central hole stops the gas moving. It keeps the inlet manifold clean and the smog valve will never clog up.

Another emission bodge favoured by some manufacturers is to fit an air injector to the exhaust ports just after the valves. This dilutes the exhaust gas so the measured emissions are cleaner. It does all of nothing to reduce the total emissions by mass. Even worse if robs the suction effect of the exhaust.

Immediately after the exhaust valve opens the spent gasses will have gone down the pipe. They move so fast that the exhaust goes to negative pressure (sometimes as much as 50% vacuum). The inlet valve opens before the exhaust closes so that suction helps to feed the engine. In fact the piston can be moving upward while the new charge is still filling the cylinder. Breaking the exhaust vacuum with air injectors loses that benefit and increase pumping losses.

Under peak conditions there will be a harmonic resonance effect between inlet and exhaust. But under normal conditions that exhaust suction has a significant benefit on cylinder filling. Chuck in a smog valve or air injection and all that goes away.