Had fiats all my life and always will have but I have to say modern cars are crap,yes even fiat,paper thin metal,waterbased paint that scratches so easily,difficult to do even simple jobs compared to cars from the 80 s 1990 s.The other day a headlamp went out on my wife's punto evo,two second job on an old car,not so on the evo , nightmare poor access,hand to big to get in,lamp sat so deep in the headlight you can't see how the retaining clip works,give me an old car any day.

Michael Dranfield said:

Had fiats all my life and always will have but I have to say modern cars are crap,yes even fiat,paper thin metal,waterbased paint that scratches so easily,difficult to do even simple jobs compared to cars from the 80 s 1990 s.The other day a headlamp went out on my wife's punto evo,two second job on an old car,not so on the evo , nightmare poor access,hand to big to get in,lamp sat so deep in the headlight you can't see how the retaining clip works,give me an old car any day.

Click to expand...

You should try a Stilo. Especcially on our drivers (and your passenger)side

gr J

The 100HP does wonders for errant Audi drivers (Allof the b*****).

Especially on roundabouts. Had one idiot try to bulldoze me of the road the other day after I overtook in a responsible manner. So I really let rip around a coupe of tight country bends I know well, and never saw his headlights again. SO one back for the Panda there I am pleased to report.

Well I am starting t think... Percy P has now done 99600 miles and won't go on for ever. I still intend to keep him till he is unre[airable or I cant get the bits for him as he still feels very fresh and full of go.

I have been trawling through car ads though thinking of off loading the Bravo though and cannot see anything I want other than a newer Panda. I need to have a really good go in a podgy Panda to decide if the handling is up to it. The press seem to rate it highly and the twin air does go reasonably. I am still uncertain of the longevity of a two pot motor though.. I like the idea of 4WD but suspect I would rarely get a benefit from it and the cost!!!!! Probably will go for a Lounge with climate pack and the twin air.. Am I right in suspecting the diesel is no longer listed for sale??

petercresswell said:

Well I am starting t think... Percy P has now done 99600 miles and won't go on for ever. I still intend to keep him till he is unre[airable or I cant get the bits for him as he still feels very fresh and full of go.



I have been trawling through car ads though thinking of off loading the Bravo though and cannot see anything I want other than a newer Panda. I need to have a really good go in a podgy Panda to decide if the handling is up to it. The press seem to rate it highly and the twin air does go reasonably. I am still uncertain of the longevity of a two pot motor though.. I like the idea of 4WD but suspect I would rarely get a benefit from it and the cost!!!!! Probably will go for a Lounge with climate pack and the twin air.. Am I right in suspecting the diesel is no longer listed for sale??

Click to expand...

I share the same view about the two cylinder - surely it can't age well with so much force through its tiny pistons. But I'd imagine they are a great drive - can't wait to try one.

The diesel has been pulled from all new Pandas except the 4x4. Not sure how long before the 4x4 option for diesel is pulled too.

Does anybody know if a 4x4 diesel Panda was ever 'much better' for towing or other 4x4 type of tasks, as if so, maybe Fiat can't discontinue the diesel in the 4x4

SB1500 said:

I share the same view about the two cylinder - surely it can't age well with so much force through its tiny pistons. But I'd imagine they are a great drive - can't wait to try one.

Click to expand...

Personally, I'd imagine the main issue that could severely reduce the service life of a TwinAir would be lack of maintenance. If they're properly looked after and maintained, and driven with a certain amount of mechanical sympathy, I'd imagine they'll be capable of racking up a reasonable mileage.

SB1500 said:

The diesel has been pulled from all new Pandas except the 4x4. Not sure how long before the 4x4 option for diesel is pulled too.

Click to expand...

Don't be too sure... maybe from the UK market because they can see it's lost some appeal, and it's not worth the bother with all the service problems that the Euro6 bodges will bring.

I've just come back from a week in Italy, and diesel is significantly cheaper than petrol so for European markets I'm sure the diesels will continue across the Fiat range.

We hired first a Punto 1.2 5-door petrol which I believe isn't available in the UK any more, and then a Panda 1.2 petrol. Both good cars but the Punto was compromised by the low gearing needed for a small engine and a heavyish car.. doing 3500 revs at around 60-65 mph. Fine for local driving though. The Panda 1.2 is still a good little package overall and should be for a while yet. As for the Twinair.. well it should be as durable and usable as the latest Ford engines, twhich haul a big Focus around using a 1-litre triple!

simon_16vpunto: what are the Punto variants available in the UK atm?

It definitely wasn't, Our new car was never fixed, so we walked, now the 09 Panda we gave my daughter is now going also, its still a good car, she's had enough of poor main dealership work, its always come back well valeted absolutely spotless but not put back together, We had to pay for petrol on the courtesy car the many times the new panda went back, Our new car is a 1 litre eco boost Fiesta now three years on its never had to go back in and our daughter is just going to take delivery of a new Honda. So after 30 years of Fiat ownership its goodby.

SB1500 said:

I share the same view about the two cylinder - surely it can't age well with so much force through its tiny pistons. But I'd imagine they are a great drive - can't wait to try one.

Click to expand...

The TwinAir id 900 or 1000cc so pistons are bigger than the 1250 four. With a turbo its more than up to making the power needed in a small car and with fewer moving parts has less internal power losses.

I personally favour four bangers as they are simple enough and reasonably well balanced so don't need fancy mountings or power sapping balance shafts.

BMW have an interesting twin with their F800. It makes 90bhp and uses a pendulum weight driven by a small con-rod to cancel the parallel twin vibration.

My 100hp has gone off to a new home, now im in a BMW125i till next year when ill get either a tesla or a BMWi3rex, missing the panda already. I blame the wife, we went out to buy new towels for the bathroom and come back having bought the BMW, women..

DaveMcT said:

The TwinAir id 900 or 1000cc so pistons are bigger than the 1250 four. With a turbo its more than up to making the power needed in a small car and with fewer moving parts has less internal power losses.

I personally favour four bangers as they are simple enough and reasonably well balanced so don't need fancy mountings or power sapping balance shafts.

BMW have an interesting twin with their F800. It makes 90bhp and uses a pendulum weight driven by a small con-rod to cancel the parallel twin vibration.

Click to expand...

DaveMcT , watched a few technical videos of the TwinAir and by god, you're right. They're noticeably bigger.

That completely throws out the window all my negative opinions about it.

Perhaps my next Fiat will have one!!!