Apparently I have the 1.2 type 2 engine. Does anyone know if this engine has timing marks or will I need locking tools for the crankshaft and camshaft?
Technical 2008 1.2 type 2 timing belt replacement
- Thread starter dozer
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical 2008 1.2 type 2 timing belt replacement
Answering my own question here but I think I do need locking tools but can't I just not use tip-ex to create my own timing marks?
I've read the haynes manual and it's wrecked my head! It says the camshaft sprocket bolt has to be loosened. Why is this? Is it for the vvt engine?
Last edited:
If you have a round oil cap, you need tools.
No timing marks on the pulleys, so finding the right place to set the engine is difficult.
The tools will set the crank and camshaft in the right places. The cam pulley bolt is loosened to allow the pulley to rotate in relation to the camshaft. With the cam and crank held, the new belt is fitted and tensioned, then the bolt tightened to put it all in the right place.
The kits contain tools for twin cam as well, so more money than we need to spend.
In September 2013, I found this: http://www.jhmbuttco.com/acatalog/info_AST4950.html
The subtle statement about spare parts caught my eye, and I asked if I could buy just the three bits I needed, just them, no box. Then they cost me £42.
The crank tool is the 'bat'-like black thing, with three bolts to hold it to the crank, and one to locate it into the cover bolt-hole at the other end.
Their part number AST4951
The cam tool is the almost flat plate with the angled piece. AST4952.
The third part I bought, quite expensive for what it is at just over £12, is the tensioner adjuster. The small tool with the 'C' shaped end. The 'C' shape has two small pins that engage into the tensioner making it easy to rotate to the correct tension. This can be done with circlip pliers, but this tool makes it so easy. AST4513
I emailed them to start with, then once quoted, had to call to make the payment. Separate parts are not stock items so it took about a fortnight.
You may be able to find better, but it worked for me at the time. Sadly, I'm a bit far away to pop round and loan them to you.
No timing marks on the pulleys, so finding the right place to set the engine is difficult.
The tools will set the crank and camshaft in the right places. The cam pulley bolt is loosened to allow the pulley to rotate in relation to the camshaft. With the cam and crank held, the new belt is fitted and tensioned, then the bolt tightened to put it all in the right place.
The kits contain tools for twin cam as well, so more money than we need to spend.
In September 2013, I found this: http://www.jhmbuttco.com/acatalog/info_AST4950.html
The subtle statement about spare parts caught my eye, and I asked if I could buy just the three bits I needed, just them, no box. Then they cost me £42.
The crank tool is the 'bat'-like black thing, with three bolts to hold it to the crank, and one to locate it into the cover bolt-hole at the other end.
Their part number AST4951
The cam tool is the almost flat plate with the angled piece. AST4952.
The third part I bought, quite expensive for what it is at just over £12, is the tensioner adjuster. The small tool with the 'C' shaped end. The 'C' shape has two small pins that engage into the tensioner making it easy to rotate to the correct tension. This can be done with circlip pliers, but this tool makes it so easy. AST4513
I emailed them to start with, then once quoted, had to call to make the payment. Separate parts are not stock items so it took about a fortnight.
You may be able to find better, but it worked for me at the time. Sadly, I'm a bit far away to pop round and loan them to you.
portland_bill;The cam pulley bolt is loosened to allow the pulley to rotate in relation to the camshaft. With the cam and crank held said:
Don't know if your situation is different to me but I purchases a locking tool set similar to the link above for ~£100. Couldn't work out why it was needed and didn't use it in the end (I marked the cogs to capture the correct positions).
I followed the instructions [/URL], which were nearly identical to the Panda.
I did the alternator belt, water pump (you need gasket rubber), and tensioner while I was there as you have good access to do these, when you have enough off to reach the timing belt.
See some other posts in the forum that may be useful:
Link 1
Link 2
I followed the instructions [/URL], which were nearly identical to the Panda.
I did the alternator belt, water pump (you need gasket rubber), and tensioner while I was there as you have good access to do these, when you have enough off to reach the timing belt.
See some other posts in the forum that may be useful:
Link 1
Link 2
Thanks for the links especially the video. He doesn't use locking tools or loosen the camshaft sprocket.
The loosening of the camshaft I still can't get my head round!! If it was loosened and turned then it would put the timing completely out wouldn't it?
I've done timing belts on escort xr3i cvh, astra gte 16v and 8v, corsa gsi, golf gti and astra 1.7td so I've done a few but this little panda which theoretically should be the easiest has go me baffled.
The haynes manual has become more complicated aswell. It should explain why the camshaft sprocket needs to be loosened and not just say do it imo.
portland_bill wrote - The cam pulley bolt is loosened to allow the pulley to rotate in relation to the camshaft.
I've read and read that caption but can't understand why!! Would that not alter the timing by doing that?
The loosening of the camshaft I still can't get my head round!! If it was loosened and turned then it would put the timing completely out wouldn't it?
I've done timing belts on escort xr3i cvh, astra gte 16v and 8v, corsa gsi, golf gti and astra 1.7td so I've done a few but this little panda which theoretically should be the easiest has go me baffled.
The haynes manual has become more complicated aswell. It should explain why the camshaft sprocket needs to be loosened and not just say do it imo.
portland_bill wrote - The cam pulley bolt is loosened to allow the pulley to rotate in relation to the camshaft.
I've read and read that caption but can't understand why!! Would that not alter the timing by doing that?
Last edited:
The cam 'timing' is the relationship between the cam and crank. The locking tools put the crankshaft and camshaft in their correct places, relative to each other.
Now, if the pulley is fixed, the belt when fitted may move the pulley a little, one way or the other, due to manufacturing tolerances, so the timing would be slightly out. By fixing the shafts, then fixing the, effectively adjustable, pulley to the correctly aligned camshaft, keeps it all exactly as Fiat intended, to get the best from the motor and to meet emission regs.
Hopefully that is clearer.
Thanks for that information. I understand now.
If you use the locking tools I would be interested to see a picture of them in place.
Just in case it would be worth marking the positions as well (as in the video I attached). Also when fitting the belt fit the lines on the belt to the markings you made. It is not strictly needed (if you are using the locking tools) but should give you confidence you got it right and cover you if you don't. It will also ensure that you fit the belt the right way round (if that matters).
I also found that attaching the belt was a two person job. Just 5 minutes of somebody to help made a big difference for me as I needed to check the belt from the top and bottom of the engine (so somebody holding the positioning at the top while I fixed/adjusted it at the bottom made life a lot easier).
Good luck.
Just in case it would be worth marking the positions as well (as in the video I attached). Also when fitting the belt fit the lines on the belt to the markings you made. It is not strictly needed (if you are using the locking tools) but should give you confidence you got it right and cover you if you don't. It will also ensure that you fit the belt the right way round (if that matters).
I also found that attaching the belt was a two person job. Just 5 minutes of somebody to help made a big difference for me as I needed to check the belt from the top and bottom of the engine (so somebody holding the positioning at the top while I fixed/adjusted it at the bottom made life a lot easier).
Good luck.
I've decided to get the garage I sometimes use to do it for me for £100. Thanks for all you're advise.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2009
- Messages
- 19,492
- Points
- 3,294
The cam shaft sprocket is loosened to allow the cam belt to be correctly tightened. This will pull on to one side of the belt & can turn the cam out of alignment. If the cam is separate (loose) the belt can be correctly tightened with no timing worries and no load from valve springs. Finally, align the cam & crank and tighten the cam connecting bolt. Job done.
Its much easier with a single cam engine but on a twin cam its almost impossible without the tools.
BTW, with some engines its as simple as putting a pin though one of the cam bearing caps to align the cam to the head. Crankshaft has no need to be locked just hold the cam, make sure the crank is at the correct mark and tighten the cam bolt
Its much easier with a single cam engine but on a twin cam its almost impossible without the tools.
BTW, with some engines its as simple as putting a pin though one of the cam bearing caps to align the cam to the head. Crankshaft has no need to be locked just hold the cam, make sure the crank is at the correct mark and tighten the cam bolt
Last edited:
The compleat toolkit for the job is available on eBay.theres plenty of them priced between £35 -£45. The Haynes manual is quite clear how to use it.And yes the cam sprocket needs to be undone just a little.The sprocket can move about a quarter inch so the belt can be located. The procedure is clear in the Haynes manual.After the tensioner is tensioned the cam bolt is retightened.Read the section covering the eco 2 fully. Each engine for the 1.2 of which there are three choices is clearly described.
