Technical Advice - Buying 100hp - Rust & Exhaust

Currently reading:
Technical Advice - Buying 100hp - Rust & Exhaust

Cheers DaveMcT, a fair point actually. And also the reassurance that all that can be done has been done rather than relying on my 'best efforts' alone (and the nagging doubt that I missed something which would probably lead me to have it done properly down the line anyway!)
 
Another point of view,
How expensive is the car?, if it's around £1500, I'd be tempted to do the best I can cleaning it ( marine clean from a company called Frost's) then if it has to be scrapped in 3 years time it's cost you £500 a year.

Look at what you can get if you buy a £500 every year and you'll see the pandas worth a risk.
 
Another point of view,
How expensive is the car?, if it's around £1500, I'd be tempted to do the best I can cleaning it ( marine clean from a company called Frost's) then if it has to be scrapped in 3 years time it's cost you £500 a year.

Look at what you can get if you buy a £500 every year and you'll see the pandas worth a risk.

The hole in that argument is it assumes nothing else will need repairing in that three years - and IMO the axle won't be safe for that long anyway without serious treatment. It may not even be salvageable now. If the rest of the car is in the same state as the axle, it could turn out to be an absolute moneypit.

Just finding a third party who could do a proper job of repairing that axle will be a challenge. Dave has just spent half a day fettling an almost new one to get it into the best possible condition for painting - who in the trade can afford to put the amount of time into restoring this that it really requires to do a decent job?

A lifetime of experience leads me to suggest strongly that, unless you're a fully competent DIY mechanic, this is a car to walk away from.
 
Last edited:
The hole in that argument is it assumes nothing else will need repairing in that three years - and IMO the axle won't be safe for that long anyway without serious treatment. It may not even be salvageable now. If the rest of the car is in the same state as the axle, it could turn out to be an absolute moneypit.

A lifetime of experience leads me to suggest strongly that, unless you're a fully competent DIY mechanic, this is a car to walk away from.

Probably why I have a habit of losing a fortune on motors and land rovers :slayer:
 
Probably why I have a habit of losing a fortune on motors and land rovers :slayer:

It's not easy buying a well-used car; at the end of the day, there will always be an element of luck in the decision, whatever your skills and experience.

The best time to protect a car from the elements is when it's new and factory fresh, but sadly most new car buyers know they won't be owning the car in its dotage and can't be bothered.

The new vehicle market now is mostly made up of folks entering into pcp agreements and trading away before the warranty runs out. That's not a purchase, it's a rental - and in consequence, most used one owner cars on the forecourts are effectively ex-rental vehicles. It's not a good way for a car to start its life.
 
Well, I've long been the type to ask for advice and then totally ignore it, this may yet be another instance of exactly that...

The seller has been keeping in touch by email (he's away with work, back at the end of the week) and gave me the go ahead to inspect to my heart's content.

Sadly I couldn't find my VOSA-approved inspection hammer but I did spend half an hour this morning with a screwdriver and an LED panel poking, scraping and prodding the rear suspension cups from every conceivable angle I could get to with the car on the ground.

A fair few small flakes came away as well as some of the old paint, but there was no 'caving in' as I jabbed about, no big pieces broke away, it all felt very solid. And tapping with the screwdriver gave me the 'ping' I was hoping for, but as I say, highly unscientific given I wasn't really using the right tool for the job. Perhaps the photos make it look worse than it really is.

The rest of the underside of the car is remarkably clean, the only other noticeable rust is around the front suspension/steering but it's in a similar state (if not better) than the back end.

So, having seen all of that, I feel a little more reassured.

I've been looking around online for somewhere in Scotland that may offer the kind of service I'm needing (remove axle, blast, coat, re-assemble) but if I am being honest I feel inclined to give this a bash myself (under the watchful eye of someone who knows what they are doing!).

If I can deal with the really bad stuff around the suspension cups myself and get it through the winter without any further corrosion then I'll be a happy bunny, and by that point I'll have a better idea if I want to throw more money at the car (not to mention time to find places that would actually do it and what it could cost.)

I've been back, had yet ANOTHER look, and I'm not put off. Again, can't thank everyone enough for their input, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and will happily update you all on progress of the tidy up if (...when...) I buy the car.

Now, who can recommend me a nice bolt-on chrome exhaust tip? ;)
 
The hole in that argument is it assumes nothing else will need repairing in that three years - and IMO the axle won't be safe for that long anyway without serious treatment. It may not even be salvageable now. If the rest of the car is in the same state as the axle, it could turn out to be an absolute moneypit.

Just finding a third party who could do a proper job of repairing that axle will be a challenge. Dave has just spent half a day fettling an almost new one to get it into the best possible condition for painting - who in the trade can afford to put the amount of time into restoring this that it really requires to do a decent job?

A lifetime of experience leads me to suggest strongly that, unless you're a fully competent DIY mechanic, this is a car to walk away from.

Good advice.

Check over the whole car and be fully prepared to walk away. If the back axle looks like the only problem then its probably worth £200 or less to remove repair and powder coat. But and these are for starters
  • How old is the clutch? Is the pedal action smooth all the way down? New ones are not silly money but could be another £200 or £300 if you do the gearbox input bearings.
  • Power steering. Does it trip out if you swing the wheel when engine is cold. It might be a weak battery or a costly steering motor.
  • Cooling system Any concerns walk away as they head gasket is likely to have had a hammering.
  • Corrosion elsewhere - Look VERY closely.
I bought a 2007 low miles standard Panda it's in great condition but being tired when I agreed to buy I forgot to check the back axle. S**t happens and I have the ability to change (or repair) the axle.
 
Last edited:
This is why i spray everything i can get to underneath with wd40 once a month.

WD40 is a cleaner with very little grease content. Waxoyl is also a water dispersant but dries to a sticky wax. Dinitrol is another product and Frost.co.uk have a list of similar things.

Wax/solvent products work by soaking into the metal surface. Great for anti corrosion but not so good if you plan to paint or powder coat the axle.
 
Always worked fine for me and spraying waxoyl etc over anything other than a brand new rust free part is a waste of time.

Are we talking about the same thing? "Waxoyl" is a brand name that covers several products, but in this case we are talking about the original solvent/oil/wax based rust preventative, not underseal. The main advantage of waxoyl is that it does work on steel that already has surface rust. It soaks in, the solvent evaporates and the remaining oil/wax displaces / repels water and to a lesser extent keeps oxygen out. It's MUCH better than WD40 for this.


Robert G8RPI.
 
Well, I've long been the type to ask for advice and then totally ignore it, this may yet be another instance of exactly that...

The seller has been keeping in touch by email (he's away with work, back at the end of the week) and gave me the go ahead to inspect to my heart's content.

Sadly I couldn't find my VOSA-approved inspection hammer but I did spend half an hour this morning with a screwdriver and an LED panel poking, scraping and prodding the rear suspension cups from every conceivable angle I could get to with the car on the ground.

A fair few small flakes came away as well as some of the old paint, but there was no 'caving in' as I jabbed about, no big pieces broke away, it all felt very solid. And tapping with the screwdriver gave me the 'ping' I was hoping for, but as I say, highly unscientific given I wasn't really using the right tool for the job. Perhaps the photos make it look worse than it really is.

The rest of the underside of the car is remarkably clean, the only other noticeable rust is around the front suspension/steering but it's in a similar state (if not better) than the back end.

So, having seen all of that, I feel a little more reassured.

I've been looking around online for somewhere in Scotland that may offer the kind of service I'm needing (remove axle, blast, coat, re-assemble) but if I am being honest I feel inclined to give this a bash myself (under the watchful eye of someone who knows what they are doing!).

If I can deal with the really bad stuff around the suspension cups myself and get it through the winter without any further corrosion then I'll be a happy bunny, and by that point I'll have a better idea if I want to throw more money at the car (not to mention time to find places that would actually do it and what it could cost.)

I've been back, had yet ANOTHER look, and I'm not put off. Again, can't thank everyone enough for their input, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and will happily update you all on progress of the tidy up if (...when...) I buy the car.

Now, who can recommend me a nice bolt-on chrome exhaust tip? ;)

No idea for exhaust tip but I would say if everything else on the car looks good then buy it!
I bought an 07 plate low mileage from Aberdeen about 4 months ago. Spring cup snapped off a fortnight ago!!! Yes it's a pain but it's fixed. Welded using 5mm plate so it's now stronger than originally designed and only cost 150 to repair. I'm getting the other side down this weekend as a precaution. Older cars cost money...period but these are just so much fun it's worth it!:D
 
No idea for exhaust tip but I would say if everything else on the car looks good then buy it!
I bought an 07 plate low mileage from Aberdeen about 4 months ago. Spring cup snapped off a fortnight ago!!! Yes it's a pain but it's fixed. Welded using 5mm plate so it's now stronger than originally designed and only cost 150 to repair. I'm getting the other side down this weekend as a precaution. Older cars cost money...period but these are just so much fun it's worth it!:D

I'd be really interested in seeing some photos of those repairs/reinforcements Ricky, for future reference :) it seems to me like a no-brainer getting it done pre-emptively knowing what we know about these cars and availability of spares. Maybe start a new thread with some photos? Glad you're enjoying your Panda :)
 
I'm planning to grit blast, paint and reinforce my old axle where needed. It wont need reinforcement right around the pans so I'll post the details of the areas that need to be strengthened.
 
Here is the link to the firm I used.
http://www.onlineautomotive.co.uk/
It has been on the car for around 12 months now and still looks new and sounds good so nothing bad to say at all, which is so rare these days. The car has the original quiet smoothe and powerful note that I love.

I strongly recommend the 100HP they are really great cars and I NEVER want to part.

If you buy the car and have a problem with the axle I strongly suspect a new one would not be as expensive to fit as some have suggested as they are held on b only 6 bolts so the change time should be no more than 4 hours. The dirty old job of cleaning up the axle could be done with grit blasting without removing the axle if you hunt out some one with the kit, maybe an agricultural engineering firm would be a good bet as they do all sorts of complicated cleaning and rebuilding jobs at very decent rates and they can be found everywhere in rural places. I am going to take mine down to my local place and will let you know what they say.

You might be able to hire the kit to clean it your self, you can certainly buy it and resell?

I do think the rust on the photos suggest this car needs attention straight away though so take care. Best of luck
 
N <SNIP>
Older cars cost money...period but these are just so much fun it's worth it!:D

This is debateable. I can get a discount on a car plan through work (the group owns some franchises) but even then we are looking >£200 a month and won't own any thing at the end unless I fork out about twice what I paid for my Croma. I'd be really upset If I was paying £200 a month in repairs and maintenence on the Croma. Total spent so far, including the "normal" Croma failings of driveshafts & thermostat, brakes, wheel bearings and battery is under £600 or £30 per month. If it completely melted down tomorrow, that would be £180 per month total for 18 months motoring. Assuming it lasts the four years of a typical plan and same maintenence, the total Croma purchase and cost would be under £90 per month. Much less than the plan, even if I don't break the typical 7500 pa mileage limit.
And your plan car can suffer non-warranty failure, and you have to pay for any scrapes and dings.

So I think old cars are cheap.

Robert G8RPI.
 
This is my 2008 standard Panda back axle. The spring pans have not yet failed but its clear the front side has more rust about 1" out from the weld. I suspect this is is the most highly stressed area so it corrodes faster. A patch over this up to where the curves around will restore the strength. 3mm steel would be more than enough as that's what the original is made with. Most importantly clean off all rust, treat with a rust killer, prime and paint before welding. Then make sure all edges are welded or sealed. Welding across the end of the patch is questionable. Welds increase stress in the metal and the change of thickness creates a stress point. Welding just along the top and bottom edges will share the stress more evenly along the welds. Fill the unwelded end with mastic.

IMG_2693_zpsyvwbgl0u.jpg


IMG_2692_zps0hqzcxtl.jpg



The web at the back is welded on one side of the metal so will quickly crack when the front side breaks. A weld up the other side would be good to have.

IMG_2694_zpsn8jwjtjl.jpg
 
Last edited:
My Espace 2.0 Turbo with leather interior cost me £3000 three years ago. Its had new rear springs, a new key card (Renault standard fault) and some steering joints for MOT.

The clutch has now gone which will costs £700 to replace and the rear ABS pickups are failing so that's two complete hubs and disk brake units at about £200 the pair.

I was only planning to keep it until April next year so its now being scrapped.

£1000 per year plus running repairs is pretty much all my cars have cost - one way or another.

The most costly was an Audi A4 1.9 (140) Avant. Bought new for £25K at £500 per month and sold 18 months later for £17K. It cost me best part of £10,000 to drive for just 18 months. But to be fair I had planned to keep it long term and was not planning on a divorce. With hindsight I should have stuck to my original plan.
 
This is debateable. I can get a discount on a car plan through work (the group owns some franchises) but even then we are looking >£200 a month and won't own any thing at the end unless I fork out about twice what I paid for my Croma. I'd be really upset If I was paying £200 a month in repairs and maintenence on the Croma. Total spent so far, including the "normal" Croma failings of driveshafts & thermostat, brakes, wheel bearings and battery is under £600 or £30 per month. If it completely melted down tomorrow, that would be £180 per month total for 18 months motoring. Assuming it lasts the four years of a typical plan and same maintenence, the total Croma purchase and cost would be under £90 per month. Much less than the plan, even if I don't break the typical 7500 pa mileage limit.
And your plan car can suffer non-warranty failure, and you have to pay for any scrapes and dings.

So I think old cars are cheap.

Robert G8RPI.

Totally agree with you....I wasn't suggesting that new cars are the way to go, far too many good old ones. My 04 plate Volvo...reckon it's cost me less than 60 per month over the last 4 years and 20k miles per year!(y)
 
Back
Top