Bit of a discussion thread.. I've spent a lot of money on my Panda 169 and I love it. Firstly, I have no plans to sell it. Ever.

But some day will come the day I have a bit more money about me and when that day comes, my Panda will still remain mines. But I will look toward another car to take its place as my daily driver that's perhaps a bit more reliable (due to being newer, not that it'll be half as good as the 169 series) and cheaper on the tax too..

Things change and what I say today might not be possible in a few years due to a number reasons, so assume what I say applies - as if it were being done today! (the purpose of this is for a discussion).

When the time comes, and hopefully it's another 2-3 years away at least yet, I'd love to go for a new Panda - despite many of you fellow Fiat fans disliking them compared to the 169 - as I doubt there's many other cars today that check all the boxes the 169 did, and that no matter what I do parting will be hard. :idea:

I previously wanted a 4x4, then thought about a Lounge but recently I've been thinking.. the Pop model is so so basic, what could go wrong? Maybe I've got a bad view on things, but the black plastic door handles, steel wheels, everything I tend to love about my 169, you know, if the mirror were to get smashed off I could go and replace it for about £20 or less!? It's so functional and simple, I'd imagine the Active 169 was like this too. Most of all, it'd be lacking in so much electronics that it'd be simple to diagnose problems down the road and fix - I've done so much on my 169 (with the help of a relative) and it's truly been a great experience learning how the Panda works and being able to essentially cut out the mechanic. :slayer: I want to keep doing this with the next car, whenever it may arrive and the Pop seems one of the simplest cars on the market today that isn't a Dacia and won't be questioned in ways that other 'basic' cars tend to be.. plus .. Dacia is owned by.. Renault...

Now, one of the reasons I think so much into this is that we discovered a big section of rust / minor decay around the engine mount area down in the chassis of my 169 and it's one of those things I fear would be a reason to fail an MOT in the next 5 years (correct me if this is a stupid fear to have). Don't get me wrong, no problems with my 169 and I plan on keeping it for the next 5 years.. but should the worst happen in the form of rust or head gasket failure - those scary things that would spell the end , even for the most ambition DIY-ers with low funds and my 169 is unlucky, it's nice to have a contingency plan in place and I think the Pop is a good one.

Some people have mentioned that they might not buy another small Fiat at this rate, probably as the Panda is seen to be less than the 169 in a few ways and that the Punto is in need of a replacement to bring it up to some competitors standards, that leaves just the 500 but admittedly it's not everyone's cup of tea. The rest of the range is a bit larger and possibly not natural Panda competitors or alternatives.

Have you ever thought about what will eventually replace your 169 and how long you (and the rest of us) would expect the 169 to last?

If my trusty 169 Multijet finally dies, I'll replace it with a ...

169 Multijet!

Dez is Trigger's broom in car form.

Wee Smurf said:

Dez is Trigger's broom in car form.

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^ Just got the reference haha

Ive just discussed this with my girlfriend and my grandad.
My panda will be staying forever. it will be maintained and kept tip top.

this is the first car i have ever had that i have truly bonded with. I love it and its everything i want in a car.

it may get used as a second car at some point in the future but it will be staying for sure

Well to be honest of late it's been a bit like 'We have the technology to rebuild him' so I suppose he's a bit

If I could keep my 169 forever I would, but like the guy down the street with the 1990 Ford Orion no matter how well I keep the engine and consumables the bodywork will eventually crumble - his door and roof have all developed holes this past year! Haha

Two fears I have are the head gasket going - as I don't know how to prevent it or fix it if it were to happen

And rust getting a hold and chewing it up eventually to the point it'd fail an MOT

SB1500 said:

If I could keep my 169 forever I would, but like the guy down the street with the 1990 Ford Orion no matter how well I keep the engine and consumables the bodywork will eventually crumble - his door and roof have all developed holes this past year! Haha

Two fears I have are the head gasket going - as I don't know how to prevent it or fix it if it were to happen

And rust getting a hold and chewing it up eventually to the point it'd fail an MOT

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I remember many years ago preparing the accounts for an Irish subsidiary. Their fixed assets register listed a Ford O'rion!

SB1500 said:

If I could keep my 169 forever I would, but like the guy down the street with the 1990 Ford Orion no matter how well I keep the engine and consumables the bodywork will eventually crumble - his door and roof have all developed holes this past year! Haha

Two fears I have are the head gasket going - as I don't know how to prevent it or fix it if it were to happen

And rust getting a hold and chewing it up eventually to the point it'd fail an MOT

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Tbf it's rare you see a properly tatty Panda mk2, I'm yet to see a rotten one that wasn't showing signs of prior damage. The headgasket may go sooner or later but keeping your cooling system in good nick will help as will not caning it everywhere if it does go it's probably one of the easier HG jobs out there compared to more modern engines. As a result your average backstreet garage should be able to do it for not particularly eye watering figures.

StevenRB45 said:

Tbf it's rare you see a properly tatty Panda mk2, I'm yet to see a rotten one that wasn't showing signs of prior damage. The headgasket may go sooner or later but keeping your cooling system in good nick will help as will not caning it everywhere if it does go it's probably one of the easier HG jobs out there compared to more modern engines. As a result your average backstreet garage should be able to do it for not particularly eye watering figures.

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In the event that happened, I wonder what Fiat's quote would be. Here in N. Ireland they're not as expensive as I'd say most of England nearer to London would be. I was quoted £240 for the timing and water pump which I hear was around £380 for a Fiat dealer in England.

People say "even if you like the car, the head gasket repair still might go south soon after .. you can never get it as good as the factory.." but surely Fiat with their modern / up to date tools and expertise of their own cars could get it good as new?!

Might sound stupid, but if that went on my Panda tomorrow, I'd easily shell out £300 to them if it meant keeping my car rather than having to cut losses and put way more than £300 into another Panda or car. Must phone up my service advisor at Fiat and ask.. he must be as fed up with my calls as the Forum probably is with my discussion threads! haha

You may be over thinking the complexity of it. As far as modernish cars go the 8v fire engine is very simple any slightly competent mechanic should be able to keep one going and parts are neither rare nor expensive in general.

I had the same engine in a punto I got a head skim, new gasket, new rocker cover gasket and timing belt and had change out of 300 quid. Obviously this wasn't a main dealer but I drove the s**t out of it for another 40k then sold it to someone local who ran it until the floor rotted out 4 years later. If I'd used a main dealer the bill would have been more than the car was worth.

To be honest if you're that worried about the head gasket going, it's something that you and your uncle could change together. Years ago, I had one crack in my old car. I told my mechanic that I thought that it was causing me to lose a small amount of water and I asked him to change it. He initially doubted that anything was wrong with it, but sure enough it was cracked when it was removed. I caught it early and no damage was done. You could change it to prevent a future problem if you're that worried. It's one of the problems with aging cars that rubber and plastic parts rot or weaken.

StevenRB45 said:

You may be over thinking the complexity of it. As far as modernish cars go the 8v fire engine is very simple any slightly competent mechanic should be able to keep one going and parts are neither rare nor expensive in general.

I had the same engine in a punto I got a head skim, new gasket, new rocker cover gasket and timing belt and had change out of 300 quid. Obviously this wasn't a main dealer but I drove the s**t out of it for another 40k then sold it to someone local who ran it until the floor rotted out 4 years later. If I'd used a main dealer the bill would have been more than the car was worth.

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:worship: Reassuring stuff! Glad to hear a success story (with a car with the same engine etc) Long live my 169! Again, best case scenario, it lasts until rust takes hold. So far, so good however.

SB1500 said:

I want to keep doing this with the next car, whenever it may arrive and the Pop seems one of the simplest cars on the market today that isn't a Dacia and won't be questioned in ways that other 'basic' cars tend to be.. plus .. Dacia is owned by.. Renault...

the Punto is in need of a replacement to bring it up to some competitors standards

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Don't forget that the legendary James May likes the Sandero as much as he liked his old Panda! :devil: I wouldn't let the fact it's Renault based put you off: if looked after properly, the old Clios can be very good cars. As much as I love Fiats, there is something strangely appealing about the idea of a Dacia...

With regards to the Punto, surely you'd like the fact that it stands out from the current supermini crop: whereas the rivals have fussy styling, complex engines and gimmick filled interiors, the Punto has that lovely styling, base model versions have the same spec as your Panda, plus the 8v petrol engines are also the same as in your Panda...

puntofan01 said:

Don't forget that the legendary James May likes the Sandero as much as he liked his old Panda! :devil: I wouldn't let the fact it's Renault based put you off: if looked after properly, the old Clios can be very good cars. As much as I love Fiats, there is something strangely appealing about the idea of a Dacia...

With regards to the Punto, surely you'd like the fact that it stands out from the current supermini crop: whereas the rivals have fussy styling, complex engines and gimmick filled interiors, the Punto has that lovely styling, base model versions have the same spec as your Panda, plus the 8v petrol engines are also the same as in your Panda...

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Certainly wouldn't mind a Punto! It's too desirable for me, like the 500X and all, it's one of those cars I'd love so much I'd probably go mad if it got a scratch.

As for a brand new Panda, I feel like I wouldn't mind a few little scratches and bumps.

The Punto will probably get updated in the next year or two, that'll be the earliest I'd move on either way so I'd miss out.

Did go through a phase of liking Dacia before I had a car. Test drove a Duster and was disappointed but, it was choppy and I could hear and feel the gear change louder than my ten year old Panda! Still I know you get what you pay for..it has its good sides yes.. But I want a small car, small fuel consumption but well finished

..one thing I don't get about Renault: their Clio's seem bulletproof. They Megane's probably throw engine management lights on when it rains.. Haha But I can't back that up personally!

Who knows what the future holds, all I know is it'll be a new or approved used Fiat at the lower spectrum less than a year old

P.s. Ever seen the Punto's in India? Wish we had them here. Then maybe I'd be more up for one ;-)

I'd NEVER go for a car with one of those two cylinder turbo things that Fiat and Ford (and everyone) is producing atm, don't think they have the puff to last as long as our slower proven 8v engines. Don't think I'll ever get a diesel either as my long trips are few and far between and they're relatively expensive down the line to fix - I'm a car keeper - use it until the day it gracefully reaches its end!

Long live my 169 Panda!

Hmmm, for yourself, I'd recommend buying something that's 5 or so years old, that's mechanically very sound, but with a few dings: you might get a bargain, plus you won't be too gutted if it gets a scrape, lol!

With regards to Dacia, did you try out a Sandero? That would probably drive better than a Duster.

I must admit, I wouldn't mind a TwinAir 1 day, purely because it's unique, and interesting! I can honestly say that it's the only 1 of the downsized turbo engines currently being produced that I would actually consider. Like yourself, I'm quite happy with my 1.4 8v, I do not want a diseasel, and I intend to keep my car as many years as possible.

Long live my Grande Punto!

We've three of the later Pandas, one of which replaced our old Active.

They are good cars and in my opinion much better than the Mii's, Citigo's, Up's, C1's, 107's and Aygos we looked at.
Those first three above have horrid gearbox rattles and whines and the last three are very cheap inside and I didn't like the three cylinder warble.

They are a step up from the 169's as they all ride and handle a lot plusher, are a little more stylish inside with better trims.
All three ride a lot nicer than any of the 500's we've had on loan.

We've a 2014 4x4 TA,
a 2014 1.2 Lounge
and a 2012 1.2 Pop.

Each have their own charm, but it's a toss up between the Pop and 4x4 for me.

The 4x4 TA is a little short geared in first and can make my commute a bit of a pain at the traffic light grand prix, but out on the open road it's a real hoot in 3rd, 4th and 5th and the engine noise is infectous, unless it's after 5 hours on the motorway, where I find the constant Grrr a bit weary.(I'm getting old and grumpy these days).

The Pop is a proper Panda, a cheap car that's cheap.
It does what's needed without the flimflam and the matt finish on the dash face is a lot more restrained that the shiny ones of the other two.

Even though it's really my lad's car, I use it everyday for work and there's nothing, spec wise I miss on it that the other might have, perhaps if I being really fussy I would consider 15" rather than the 14" wheels, but I do live in Speed Bump city!

The Lounge wasn't my choice and I just can't see the point in buying a cheap car that's expensive!

Sure we paid a lot more for the 4x4, but I wanted 4x4 for a reason (which it fills brilliantly), and when you stack the price and running costs up for that against other 4x4's, it's not bad value really and it should hold on to more of it's value in the longer run, all Panda 4x4's seem to.

If I went out again, I'd want to try a normal 2wd TA, as the gearing is different to the 4x4, I reckon it should be more useful, but just and fun, but my head hold be screaming 1.2 Pop!

puntofan01 said:

Hmmm, for yourself, I'd recommend buying something that's 5 or so years old, that's mechanically very sound, but with a few dings: you might get a bargain, plus you won't be too gutted if it gets a scrape, lol!

With regards to Dacia, did you try out a Sandero? That would probably drive better than a Duster.

I must admit, I wouldn't mind a TwinAir 1 day, purely because it's unique, and interesting! I can honestly say that it's the only 1 of the downsized turbo engines currently being produced that I would actually consider. Like yourself, I'm quite happy with my 1.4 8v, I do not want a diseasel, and I intend to keep my car as many years as possible.

Long live my Grande Punto!

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Tried the Sandero (access test drive) and it was okay. Don't get me wrong, if I never found love for small Fiat's I'd be on a Dacia forum perhaps. Should Fiat ever 'sell out' or change the Panda so much that it loses its appeal to me I'm sure Dacia ain't going away to anywhere yet!

Long live your Grande Punto indeed! With the care of a fan and the help on the forum id say we can get every year we can squeeze out of our cars! Lol

Goudrons said:

We've three of the later Pandas, one of which replaced our old Active.

They are good cars and in my opinion much better than the Mii's, Citigo's, Up's, C1's, 107's and Aygos we looked at.
Those first three above have horrid gearbox rattles and whines and the last three are very cheap inside and I didn't like the three cylinder warble.

They are a step up from the 169's as they all ride and handle a lot plusher, are a little more stylish inside with better trims.
All three ride a lot nicer than any of the 500's we've had on loan.

We've a 2014 4x4 TA,
a 2014 1.2 Lounge
and a 2012 1.2 Pop.

Each have their own charm, but it's a toss up between the Pop and 4x4 for me.

The 4x4 TA is a little short geared in first and can make my commute a bit of a pain at the traffic light grand prix, but out on the open road it's a real hoot in 3rd, 4th and 5th and the engine noise is infectous, unless it's after 5 hours on the motorway, where I find the constant Grrr a bit weary.(I'm getting old and grumpy these days).

The Pop is a proper Panda, a cheap car that's cheap.
It does what's needed without the flimflam and the matt finish on the dash face is a lot more restrained that the shiny ones of the other two.

Even though it's really my lad's car, I use it everyday for work and there's nothing, spec wise I miss on it that the other might have, perhaps if I being really fussy I would consider 15" rather than the 14" wheels, but I do live in Speed Bump city!

The Lounge wasn't my choice and I just can't see the point in buying a cheap car that's expensive!

Sure we paid a lot more for the 4x4, but I wanted 4x4 for a reason (which it fills brilliantly), and when you stack the price and running costs up for that against other 4x4's, it's not bad value really and it should hold on to more of it's value in the longer run, all Panda 4x4's seem to.

If I went out again, I'd want to try a normal 2wd TA, as the gearing is different to the 4x4, I reckon it should be more useful, but just and fun, but my head hold be screaming 1.2 Pop!

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So you think the Pop is great as a functional car? I've never really had a more expensive car with all the gadgets really, so I can't really 'miss' them.

My pleasure would come from a new head unit with Apple CarPlay , a nice set of speakers , Bluetooth hands free kit and as you said, maybe an Alloy wheel upgrade.

It's more the fact it's a shiny new car with an un-abused engine, a brand new gear box, clean insides of the doors.. Etc etc that I'd love the pleasure of owning

Just one feature - central locking is what I'd like. I'm not sure, but I think Fiat can retrofit this for £150 - going to ask next time I'm at the dealer to check this.

You really shouldn't have any need to change the car for a while now that you have given it a good going-over. As you have seen rust will be the thing to watch especially as the car is now over 10 years old, but isolated areas can be cleaned up and protected by a simple squirt of waxy spray. I can't imagine that little car trapping mud etc. in areas that will rot unobserved.

I've always found that Fiat underseal and seam sealer (along the floors and sills) deteriorates secretly after 10 or so years, and water seeps underneath and starts rusting if you're not careful.

But otherwise that model was a great little car and probably the last classic, simple, small Fiat that we will see (especially with the original door mirrors that were replaced with the daft "elephants ear" style later ones.

I've driven your model and the new one as hire cars in Italy, the current version is nice and grown up and civilised but it's essentially a more practical and conventional variant of the 500.