I have been driving a lot out of town recently so I noticed and started to be a bit upset about the steering wheel being off centre. It's just a bit but it is basically never straight when I drive straight. The four wheel alignment was done a few months ago and the car is still going perfectly straight when I let go of the steering wheel, so I suppose there is nothing wrong with the wheel alignment, just the steering wheel is not where it is supposed to be. Last time I went to a mechanic after he finished the wheel alignment and I noticed the steering wheel was off centre, he just took a wrench and adjusted something at the right wheel (steering rod?) to make the steering wheel in the centre. I test drove and it was almost perfect, but on those twisty B roads I was never sure. Only recently I can confirm the steering wheel is definitely not straight. My question - if I ask about this in a different garage where I happen to be when traveling, they suggest doing the complete four wheel alighment without guaranteeing that the wheel will be in the centre. I don't want to pay for the wheel alighnment if that is not an issue, I just want them to adjust the steering wheel, which they refuse to do saying they do it while doing the complete wheel alighment. So what is wrong with taking a wrench and doing a one minute job, test drive and then maybe do it again to make it perfect? It would cost much less and it would take a few minutes. Will it do any harm to the four wheel alignment? I understand that it is a trial error job, but still easier and quicker than the wheel alignment.

It is possible to align the front wheels correctly, yet have the steering wheel off centre.

Someone has adjusted the track rod ends with the steering wheel off centre slightly, the lazy buggers.

This will cause the torque sensor on the power steering to believe it has some input in one direction and can cause a steering pull.

What you really need is the steering rack and then steering wheel centering first, then the track adjusting.

I dont think the steering wheel pulls at all, it just off centre and when it is off centre a bit, the car goes straight, without pulling anywhere.

I didn't know the power steering was involved in this whole process.

So what is wrong with just adjusting the part near one of the front wheels?

I still don't understand what harm does it do if it just works.

Think of the steering of being made up of four parts.
Steering wheel.
Steering column (with PAS motor)
Steering rack
Track rods.

The system is designed to work will them all aligned with each other.

If they are not, the car will not travel in a straight line with the steering wheel centred.

It's possible to set the steering up "straight" via the track rods alone and quite possibly with the rack, column and steering wheel off to one side, which is what I am suggesting has been done.

This causes slightly more of the rack to hang out of one side.
The steering wheel to be off centre.
And the column is be rotated slightly to one side instead on evenly in the middle (no torque sensor input).

This column being off centre can be a problem with EPAS (electric assistance) systems like the Panda has.

The motor works by detecting driver inputs to the steering wheel via a torque sensor within the column, this detects inputs one way or the other and works out how much assistence is needed, so powers the motor that way accordingly.

Think of it like this:
L5 L4 L3 L2 L1 0 R1 R2 R3 R4 R5

If the column and rack are not centred when the wheels are at the straight ahead postion via the track rods, it will pick up a signal for assistence in one direction.

So instead of the track rods being set with the steering wheel/column/torque sensor at 0 (the middle, with no assistence) the track rods/road wheels have been set with the column/torque sensor at L1.

This will cause the torque sensor to register a slight Left input when driving straight.
It will also cause the steering wheel to be off set to the left slightly.
It will also constantly send some power through the EPAS motor when it's not needed.

If the steering wheel or column or rack have not been removed and refitted, it's a simple task to sort.

The rack, column and steering wheel need to be centred, so the torque sensor reads 0 and the steering wheel is straight.
Then the track rods set with the correct setting for the wheels to track straight.

What tends to happen is some spanner jockey at such places as kwikyfitty sets the track rods/road wheels straight without first checking the rack, column and steering wheel is centred.

:yeahthat:

Common fault caused by poor workmanship. Either wheel not held in center during adjustment or even worse, lazy fitter only adjusting one track rod end rather than splitting the adjustment between both.
Ford main dealer recently did the same thing to the wife's Focus amongst other things.

It's a common thing in the kitcar world too.

Owners decide to install an EPAS column from the Corsa and end up going around in circles until the motor burns out, they descride it as a sh*t system!

Thank you, Goudrons, for the explanation.

So as I understood, the simple job of adjusting something a little would only seemingly solve the problem - the car would go straight, the steering wheel would be in the centre, but the whole system would be somehow off. Something would not be straight, but in my little brain I cannot get it where the harm would be in real life.

It seems the only thing I can do is go to Fiat garage and ask them if they are able to sort this out perfercly and if not if they accept my claim and redo the job until the steering wheel is straight.

Just get the wheel alignment sorted with the rack and column central.
If the steering wheel has not been off, this should centre that too.

ruinin said:

Something would not be straight, but in my little brain I cannot get it where the harm would be in real life. .

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Even if the tracking were spot-on in a straight line, the track rods need to be of even length side to side. This is because the steering is designed to allow the inside wheel on any curve to follow a smaller arc than the outside wheel - known as the Ackerman principle. With uneven track rod lengths this does not happen. It can cause uneven tyre wear, uneven steering effort, and more importantly, a loss of vehicle stability.

An insurer would love it if he could point to steering out of alignment in any accident!

Sweetsixteen said:

Even if the tracking were spot-on in a straight line, the track rods need to be of even length side to side. This is because the steering is designed to allow the inside wheel on any curve to follow a smaller arc than the outside wheel - known as the Ackerman principle. With uneven track rod lengths this does not happen. It can cause uneven tyre wear, uneven steering effort, and more importantly, a loss of vehicle stability.

An insurer would love it if he could point to steering out of alignment in any accident!

Click to expand...

So now I understand why it is not OK to do it that way. So I'm doomed, have to head to a quality garage. I found one with some kind of new 3D wheel alignment technology and they mention the steering wheel must be centred, so I hope they can do it, although the price is a bit higher than elsewhere.

ruinin said:

So now I understand why it is not OK to do it that way. So I'm doomed, have to head to a quality garage. I found one with some kind of new 3D wheel alignment technology and they mention the steering wheel must be centred, so I hope they can do it, although the price is a bit higher than elsewhere.

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You don't NEED fancy 3D / laser tracking equipment, you need someone who knows what they are doing. As most modern cars have minimal suspension / steering adjustment, typically just track rod ends, they can't adjust most of it. The fancy systems will tell if somthing is bent or broken, but a good engineer could set up the tracking with a pair of greased plates, some string, a tape measure and a couple of straight edges.
I've had a (non-Fiat) main dealer completely mess up the handling of a car because the computer on the laser tracking system didn't "know" that the early versions of that model had a different suspension setup.
Try to find a specialist.

g8rpi said:

You don't NEED fancy 3D / laser tracking equipment, you need someone who knows what they are doing. As most modern cars have minimal suspension / steering adjustment, typically just track rod ends, they can't adjust most of it. The fancy systems will tell if somthing is bent or broken, but a good engineer could set up the tracking with a pair of greased plates, some string, a tape measure and a couple of straight edges.
I've had a (non-Fiat) main dealer completely mess up the handling of a car because the computer on the laser tracking system didn't "know" that the early versions of that model had a different suspension setup.
Try to find a specialist.

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The problem is that a random garage cannot do the job properly, I have already tried two. Neither of the mechanics was able to deal with the off centre steering wheel. Another random garage and the mechanic there told me they cannot guarantee the steering wheel will be centered. So now what? Fiat garage maybe?

Unfortunately, finding a real good mechanic is the luck of the draw.

Setting Panda steering accurately is NOT hard, but it does require a guy who has old-fashioned common sense and experience, plus the patience to fine-tune the results until he's got it dead right.
Even a Gunson Trakrite will give you a sound basis to work from.

Sounds like you've been unlucky so far, but good lads are out there.

I used to travel 2-3h to specialists to have my previous cars serviced for this very reason, most mechanics are spanner monkeys.

I had exactly the same problem in a 106 when I had the shock absorbers replaced, I picked up the car only to find the steering wheel had to be angled at 45 degress when going straight.

I took it to a few places but nonone could sort it out.