Morning all,

I have a 2007 Panda with the 70hp 1.3 Multijet engine with 140k miles on the clock (it's a lot I know).

Over the past year I have been having a problem with a flat spot, jerkiness and excessive grey smoke during hard acceleration. Mostly it happens when it's raining moderately hard or when the car is cold on a morning. Once warmed up the flat spot improves and the smoke reduces.

The car has had a new timing chain in the last 10k miles, although this has made no difference. I'm reading lot's of things about MAP & MAF sensors, the Turbo and the EGR. I have plugged a cheap diagnostic cable into the car and used MultiECUScan but it hasn't found any error codes.

Can anybody shine any light on this?

Cheers, Dave.

Have you blocked the little screwhole in the centre under the black plastic below the wipers? If not, water can drip into the airbox and cause issues.

Wee Smurf said:

Have you blocked the little screwhole in the centre under the black plastic below the wipers? If not, water can drip into the airbox and cause issues.

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No, is this a design fault?

If you choose to blank the offending screw (good advice) then remove the airbox and check along the back join, which can't be seen when it's in place. These air boxes warp, and you may find that you can see the air filter sticking out. If so, seal this join with carpet tape or similar. It can let in unfiltered air as well as water dripping from the offending screw.
That's a good many miles you've done - long may it last!

Here's a few things to consider:

1. When was the last time you changed the air filter? If not in the last month, change it.

2. MAP and MAF are sensors which feed information the engines ECU. If these are contaminated with muck of some kind they will not work properly. Locate, remove, clean with aerosol Brake and Clutch cleaner and reinstall.

3. Change engine glow plugs. These help the engine to warm up, once they are worn/malfunctioning the engine takes longer to warm up. As a result you get smoke, until it has warmed up.

Dave

dsgoody said:

No, is this a design fault?

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Yes it's really bad design.

I will look at filling this hole in ASAP, sealing up that gap in the airbox if it exists and cleaning the sensors. The air filter could probably do with a change, I'm sure it's approaching 12k miles.

As for the glow plugs, what brand would you recommend? Euro Car Parts have Denso, BERU or Bosch available at around £9 to £10 each.

I'm hoping to get 200k miles out of the car It might be a stretch, but I believe the engine internals can do it. It's just everything else around it that will struggle. I have it booked in next week to have a new clutch as the FACTORY ORIGINAL clutch is only just starting to slip; at 140k miles!!!

Please , please , PLEASE don't buy a clutch unless you're 110% certain you need it ?A little clutch slip is an inherent flaw in this car .Mine has been doing it for best part of 50k miles ! ( clutch is acknowledged as too weak for torque)

I'm also hoping to reach 200k with my 152.5k baby due an oil change in next few days !

I wouldn't bother changing the glowplugs. The car will put flash the glowplug light when one fails, so yours should be OK.
I'd unplug the leads from the engine ECU when the weather is nice and dry and check for leaks and give it a small squirt with WD40. There are a few threads on this forum that deal with that.
Good Luck

ytareh said:

Please , please , PLEASE don't buy a clutch unless you're 110% certain you need it ?A little clutch slip is an inherent flaw in this car .Mine has been doing it for best part of 50k miles ! ( clutch is acknowledged as too weak for torque)

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It's definitely started significantly slipping within the last week when going uphill with passengers on board. It's never been like that in the 2 and a bit years of owning it.

richardllew said:

I wouldn't bother changing the glowplugs. The car will put flash the glowplug light when one fails, so yours should be OK.
I'd unplug the leads from the engine ECU when the weather is nice and dry and check for leaks and give it a small squirt with WD40. There are a few threads on this forum that deal with that.
Good Luck

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Ok, cheers for the heads up.

dsgoody said:

It's definitely started significantly slipping within the last week when going uphill with passengers on board. It's never been like that in the 2 and a bit years of owning it.

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Well mine comes and goes too.The cold air lately will give a bit more power to the engine .Fiat knew the clutch was so borderline in these they destined the Multijet to 70bhp from 75in the Punto .I wouldn't change it until it was definitely on its last legs .It won't let you down suddenly unlike most cars when clutch dies . You just need to nurse it along for a bit .

ytareh said:

Well mine comes and goes too.The cold air lately will give a bit more power to the engine .Fiat knew the clutch was so borderline in these they destined the Multijet to 70bhp from 75in the Punto .I wouldn't change it until it was definitely on its last legs .It won't let you down suddenly unlike most cars when clutch dies . You just need to nurse it along for a bit .

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After 140k miles and it's just started slipping; it's due replacement. It's never been like it before; and I've driven the car 40k miles myself. Yes, I could get more miles out it buy why risk it?

FYI, the Panda had the 75bhp engine from late 2010 (if Parkers is to be believed). The 75bhp engine was the Euro 5 variant with a DPF, as fitted to the 500. The thing that really changed between the Punto and Panda/500 engines was the torque output; 180/190Nm got reduced to 140/145Nm due to the gearbox.

Well, I had the clutch replaced last week for the bargain price of £210. So much better, the clutch feels lighter, smoother and although it was slipping when it was bedding into the flywheel it's perfect now - massively improved.

As the weather was nice on Sunday I manage to get outside, remove the Airbox, clean the MAF sensor with Electrical Contact Cleaner and seal the screw hole. I used black roofing sealant for this job. I didn't clean the MAP sensor as I was concerned about breaking it's seal to the manifold and not being able to seal it again. How does this work, some form of gasket, rubber seal? Does this need replacing when I remove it?


Screw sealed nicely.


The Airbox wasn't warped. I'm going to order up new filters and service it soon.

Overall the difference is huge. I still can't say it's perfect, but the car idles smoother and the flat spot has been smoothed out. It's not rained heavily yet so I can't see if sealing the screw has helped, although I'm guessing that it has.

dsgoody said:

I didn't clean the MAP sensor as I was concerned about breaking it's seal to the manifold and not being able to seal it again. How does this work, some form of gasket, rubber seal? Does this need replacing when I remove it?

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Anybody?

The manifold air pressure sensor is sealed with an O ring which sits in a groove in the spigot which goes into the manifold. As fitted, it is about 13mm dia and 2.5mm thick, of green rubber.

I forgot to mention that the MAP sensor is held on by a single self tapping screw (probably torx head), rather fiddly to get at. Get the plug off first. You can't lose the O ring but the screw might try to escape.

My 2007 was hesitating until I used Wynns EGR and MAF sensor cleaner on the MAF. After reading a lot about different suggested ways of cleaning the MAF, I came to use what seemed reasonable given that it is supposed to have some kind of coating on it. The running is much improved, though I now have a yellow check engine light showing

My airbox was warped and needed encouraging to fit together properly. Changed the filter but couldn't see any sign of water ingress.