New Panda, 1100 miles, wife drives, er, rather timidly, which I mention as it may be relevant!

Going round a corner in second, slowly (!), got beeping, "gearbox fail" and red gearbox icon on dash. Parked up, turned off.

I started the car, same message after a few seconds (gearbox in auto 1st), buzzing noises under bonnet. I took it for a drive, drove gently and very hard, it was fine.

Manual says take to dealer. Should I?

Reason I mention her driving style, is it possible to 'confuse' the dual logic computer to the point where it almost stalls, eg by supplying almost no gas, with foot JUST pressing accelerator? Or just my mad theory?

Cheers.

get to your dealer asap, its not uncommon for these boxes to give trouble and dont be at all surprised if your dealer struggles to find the fault... even fiat dont really understand how they work!

nuovapanda said:

even fiat dont really understand how they work!

Click to expand...

Bit unfair saying that is it not?

Anyway,Hmm take it to dealer to get codes read,if they dont UNDERSTAND whats wrong post up here & maybe we can advise,got all the workings literature here etc.If they extract a fault code let us know what it is.

not at all unfair, was told that by an experianced fiat mechanic! he said he would never own one himself and whenever he spoke to fiat regarding faults theyd groan and say no one understands them!!

Thanks for the advice folks. Have booked the car in for a check - Oct 4th is the earliest the dealer can do, but they said as long as the gearbox symbol goes off after starting the engine, it's OK to drive.

Let us know how you get on then ok,could simply be a incorrectly adjusted switch,was your wife braking at all at the time?

She was going round a sharp bend at the time, I'm 99.99999999999999999% sure she would have been braking. Is this relevant?

If the box continues to function then I would suspect an electrical gremlin

Has it happened since? and did any of the other instruments fail to work at the time of the "gearbox fail" message. Like the rev counter or water temp gauge?

Have been some problems with circuit boards for the instrument cluster.

hmm said:

She was going round a sharp bend at the time, I'm 99.99999999999999999% sure she would have been braking. Is this relevant?

Click to expand...

Yes,some where fitted with wrong brake switches,what colour is the switch?

Er, what and where is the brake switch?

On the brake pedal,look up & you will see a switch with a plunger that touches the brake pedal.

Hi,

Update on the gearbox fail. (By the way, the switch behind the brake pedal is blue.)

I took the car in this morning, and the dealer performed as expected, by which I mean they didn't really perform. This was because although they got an error code, they couldn't download the circuit diagrams to ascertain where the fault might lie. 'It's a new model sir' and they couldn't get the diagrams from FIAT's web site. They did wipe the memory of the error log though and offerred to plug in the diags if the fault recurred.

Anyway..... the printout has two parts as follows:

1st page

Examiner Smart
Marelli SELESPEED CFC228F automatic gearbox
Engine speed 745 rpm
Hydraulic circuit pressure 40.96 bar
Clutch disk speed 0 rpm
Selection speed 19.78 mm
Speed requested neutral
Engagement position 25.70 mm
Gear engaged neutral
Battery voltage 13.93 volt

Errors detected by the Control unit
P1744 - Hydraulic circuit press. sensor Intermittent

Active diagnosis not performed

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2nd page

Control unit test
Marelli SELESPEED CFC228F automatic gearbox

Error - P1744
Hydraulic circuit press. sensor, S.C. to ground / O.C.
Intermittent

Detection conditions

Hydraulic circuit pressure 38 bar
Engine speed 1408 rpm
Vehicle speed 22 km/h
Speed requested Second
Gear engaged Second
Gearbox oil temperature 35.2 Deg./C
Battery voltage 13 volt
Failure lamp Requested
Error counter 47
Symptom code 0

Is this of any use?

Another Panda driver said that when the gearbox fail light comes on, the rev counter stops too, but all can be returned to normal by operating the wash-wipe.

And I thought it was only Italian bikes that had dodgy electrics....

Thanks for looking!

Thanks for the update. I think dodgy electrics in particular a poor earth or two are to blame. I will be watching my dualogic carefully. May be worth an e-mail to FIAT UK just to let them know the dealer isn't really up to standard.

Thanks again

Ian

Dealer WILL have the relevant wiring diagrams on CD! Anyway I was using Fiat Etech most of the day no problem.

I'll look into P1174/diagram tomorrow if I remember

Re: Dual Logic Gearbox Fail and Customer Service!

T14086, thanks for looking!

Is the blue brake switch relevant?

You know, when the dealer said 'we couldn't get the parts diagram' I laughed and accepted it as being typical of your average car service standards. :bang: I used to work for Toshiba. By the time a new laptop was released in the UK we had already received manuals, service guides, parts lists, error codes and definitions etc from Japan. We had everything we needed, and in those days the web wasn't used as a data source like it is now.

T14086, are you a FIAT employee or franchisee? If so, I don't wish to berate you personally, of course, especially as you're being very helpful. Just wondered if I can access the same data as you.

We bought the Panda as it seemed ideal for the missus (not wishing to be sexist), the school runs etc, and like the Multipla was in 2000 (and still is now!), it is a fresh, fun and well-received concept. However maybe I should have listened to my head not my heart as FIAT's service offering has caused me grief in the past - I've had a Multipla since March 2000, and have just switched from FIAT servicing to local garage. The missus is now unwilling to drive the car in case the gearbox does actually fail in the middle of the Kingston rush-hour traffic.

Anyway, rant over. My question, though, is: Can I go to the dealer and say
'Why don't you dig out your bloody CD?' :bang:
or 'Please change the brake switch as it's the wrong colour' :bang:
or 'It shouldn't take a squirt of the wash-wipe to get the electrics to work properly' :bang:
or 'Please fix the obvious loose earth problem' :bang: ????

I presume they'll be unwilling to take on 'warranty' work based on hearsay from an internet forum, especially as I saw that someone had scribbled on my job card 'No recalls'. Or is the forum well respected among the FIAT dealerships?

Speaking to FIAT has never helped and unless they've changed recently I wouldn't describe them as being into customer service; after particularly poor service about three years ago, and a string of letters, they eventually offerred me 10% off the price of parts at my next service. I reckon this probably would have cost them at most a tenner - had I used it.

I guess it's like lots of things, if people accept mediocrity or worse, that's how it'll stay. How can we get all the people with 'niggly' faults (which may become serious) to complain? I used to work for Ford (I might as well enclose my cv!) and when we bought a new Ford with our employee discount, we all made sure that on its first service EVERY little fault was notified to the dealer - right down to the little squeaks from the dashboard. I wonder how many people now tolerate these things?

Rant 2 over!

Cheers!

Only grey switches need changing.

Phone your dealer & say you want a courtesy car for one week,during this time I want my car fixed & 100% reliable & a full report.Also contact Fiat customer services and let them know you are doing this & would it be possible to arrange a Fiat engineer to attend sometime during the week.They WILL contact said dealer & report a complaint has been made & they will monitor the outcome.
Be polite but forceful to Fiat & dealer,shouting & swearing doesn't help,infact makes dealer dig their heels in more which is wrong but thats the way it is!
Err forgot to check that fault code ,tomorrow if I remember & let us know how you get on ok

T14086, you talk a lot of sense, thanks for your input on this matter.

Any chance you could look up the part no for the correct coloured brake switch?
Going to my dealer with this will be a gret help.

Thanks

Ian

LOL,wait till I have a few pints in me....then I really talk p*ss

"No recalls" means that the vehicle doesnt have any recalls outstanding requiring work to be carried out, how that is relevant to whether they would take information from this forum I dont know.

The error recorded is usually connected with the pressure sensor, the hydraulic pressure circuit must run between 40 Bar and 50 Bar during operation, below this and there is insufficient pressure to operate the gearshifts. If the circuit goes open ciruit or short circuit the error would be recorded, also if the pump was running and the pressure did not increase (low fluid level) or indeed if the pump or lines were blocked. In fact anything that could effect the pressure reading. First port of call for me would be to check pressure sensor connections and calibration. Oh by the way, Fiat do know about the system, so do the dealers.

Just PM'd T with a little info.