Mr FIAT - Your #1 source for vintage car parts

Technical 57 1.2 Eleganza - Jerking/kangarooing/flat spot

Currently reading:
Technical 57 1.2 Eleganza - Jerking/kangarooing/flat spot

bob1969 said:
The clutch needs calibrating. Our dualogic becomes jerky if you move in confined spaces and come on and off the thottle. To check if the gearbox has learnt bad habits take the car to a slight incline and try and hold on the incline with throttle. If the clutch is calibrated you should be able to do it. If not the clutch will come in and out which gives the kangeroo effect. A clutch recalibration usual gets rid of it. Its usual worse when cold.
The gearbox ecu is self learning and can pick up your good and bad driving habits.
Click to expand...
OK, sounds interesting, especially as you are confirming something mentioned earlier by 'Most Easterly Pandas" I can imagine that it could well be the clutch coming in and out.

So how do we calibrate the clutch... does it need to be done using a Fiat Diagnostic System, or is there a DIY method?

Thanks
 
I use multiecuscan which you can down load from the internet. You pay a small fee. You connect via a cable to vehicles ecu, check online or this forum and do a service/calibration, cant remember the menus discription exactly. This goes through the the gears one by one and resets the clutch. The other method is just go for a very long drive, the gearbox will relearn. I think in your case it will have to be recalibrated. Some forum members maybe near you and could do this for you. Also reseach alfa selespeed, it basically the same system except they can manually adjust the clutch, which we cant.
 
Last edited:
bob1969 said:
I use multiecuscan which you can down load from the internet. You pay a small fee. You connect via a cable to vehicles ecu, check online or this forum and do a service/calibration, cant remember the menus discription exactly. This goes through the the gears one by one and resets the clutch. The other method is just go for a very long drive, the gearbox will relearn. I think in your case it will have to be recalibrated. Some forum members maybe near you and could do this for you. Also reseach alfa selespeed, it basically the same system except they can manually adjust the clutch, which we cant.
Click to expand...

Brilliant, thank you!

So we need this software (is v2.2 OK? How about the free one?) plus this cable...

http://www.multiecuscan.net/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Pin-OBD-2-VAG-409-KKL-USB-Ecu-Scan-Diagnostic-Interface-Cable-Tool-CD-For-Fiat-/251589306196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a93e42754
 
Last edited:
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
You will have to buy the version that covers the gearbox. Still cheaper than going to fiat.Check on how to use it gives the correct cable etc. Your also check all the other functions etc.
 
Honda Owner said:
It has the dual logic 'automatic' type of gearbox. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that this works with solenoids and solid linkages, so doesn't need fluid?
Click to expand...

Correct, in as far as its not a separate hydraulic system for the Clutch on the Panda like it is on the 6 speed selespeed systems.

Honda Owner said:
Are you suggesting that the problem could really be the clutch engaging harshly and so almost causing the engine to stall (prevented only by a quick response from the engine management system)?

Thanks. How can we recalibrate this, is it something again needing the Fiat diagnostic software?

And is this something you need to do regularly? I'm beginning to look less kindly upon Fiats, if I'm honest...:(
Click to expand...

It tends to happen if the car isn't regularly used from experience. The cold seems to exacerbate it. As mentioned, use MES to purge the system and it should normally make a big improvement from experience with out Panda Eleganza Dualogic (y)
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
...It tends to happen if the car isn't regularly used from experience. The cold seems to exacerbate it. As mentioned, use MES to purge the system and it should normally make a big improvement from experience with out Panda Eleganza Dualogic (y)
Click to expand...
Thank you.

The car isn't used very often, and is never used for a single journey of over about 10 miles.

However (assuming that this issue is the cause of the problems) isn't this a sign that the vehicles ECU map is rather badly designed? In which case, don't Fiat have an alternate map available to properly address this problem? Or would a Fiat dealer merely reset learned values in the same way that anyone can by using the appropriate version of MES?
 
Honda Owner said:
However (assuming that this issue is the cause of the problems) isn't this a sign that the vehicles ECU map is rather badly designed? In which case, don't Fiat have an alternate map available to properly address this problem? Or would a Fiat dealer merely reset learned values in the same way that anyone can by using the appropriate version of MES?
Click to expand...

Not really, as there is nothing wrong with the mapping when the car is used regularly. Mapping of the ECU can never resolve an issue with fluid dynamics within a hydraulic system.
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
Not really, as there is nothing wrong with the mapping when the car is used regularly. Mapping of the ECU can never resolve an issue with fluid dynamics within a hydraulic system.
Click to expand...
So it is a hydraulic system? It didn't seem to have behave like it had a torque converter when I drove it, so I had assumed it was a mechanically-actuated 'traditional' gearbox and clutch.

Regarding the limited use, surely a brand new Panda is rarely chosen as the sort of vehicle that would get heavy use... it's hardly a motorway cruiser (unlike my Honda Accord diesel Tourer that has racked up a huge mileage!).

Nevertheless, you and Bob1969 have convinced me that my Father needs to have the relevant ECU reset... we just need to decide on the best way to get that performed. I will report back after this has been done.

Thanks again.
 
A dualogic gearbox is a manual gearbox with a hydraulic system that controls the clutch and gear changes. The gearbox ecu has to learn the clutch wear and other parameters so that changes of gear can be done at the right time. During a normal fiat gold service they check the dualogic hydraulics. Please note this gearbox has normal gearbox oil as well, just like a five speed manual panda gearbox. The hydraulics level maybe low, this can be check by taking the "baking tray dome" off the the right hand side of the engine bay at the front. You then purge the system using Mes to check the level. It should be max. Only use the following oil see below.
 
Last edited:
Tutela cs speed auto transmission oil for the hydraulic system usual 1litre. Mine was low on a 12k car 06 plate and a full fiat history.
 
Honda Owner said:
Regarding the limited use, surely a brand new Panda is rarely chosen as the sort of vehicle that would get heavy use... it's hardly a motorway cruiser (unlike my Honda Accord diesel Tourer that has racked up a huge mileage!).
Click to expand...

My Panda has just over 5K miles less than our Honda Accord Tourer which went over the 100K mark a couple of weeks ago.
 
Some folks have the Panda as a second car, some have it as a 1st car. Some of us have a Panda as 1st (1.2) and second car (100hp) out of choice rather than out of restricted funds, funnily enough.


Motorway cruiser? Noisier than some large barge for sure, but not unpleasant.
 
AB100 said:
Some folks have the Panda as a second car, some have it as a 1st car. Some of us have a Panda as 1st (1.2) and second car (100hp) out of choice rather than out of restricted funds, funnily enough.

Motorway cruiser? Noisier than some large barge for sure, but not unpleasant.
Click to expand...
I really wasn't suggesting that people only bought Pandas due to restricted funds... I'd have to be pretty daft to come here and offend people when I'm looking for help! But my apologies if that's how it came across.

People buy new cars for different uses... a 'large barge' would normally be the preferred choice for drivers (or company fleet buyers) who spend a lot of time cruising motorways and racking up a high mileage. In contrast, (despite the high mileage examples given, which I would expect to be a minority) I am fairly certain that the smallish 1.2 Dualogic Panda was bought as a new car by people who didn't intend to be frequently driving long distances, or intended to use it as an economical second car?

Hence my original point about the ECU learning causing such a problem when a 1.2 Dualogic Panda gets low usage/short journeys... as said, I would have thought such use would be reasonably common and should have been expected by Fiat, who should therefore have programmed it to cope? From several responses that this thread has received, it DOES seem to be a problem for many owners.
 
Honda Owner said:
I really wasn't suggesting that people only bought Pandas due to restricted funds... I'd have to be pretty daft to come here and offend people when I'm looking for help! But my apologies if that's how it came across.

People buy new cars for different uses... a 'large barge' would normally be the preferred choice for drivers (or company fleet buyers) who spend a lot of time cruising motorways and racking up a high mileage. In contrast, (despite the high mileage examples given, which I would expect to be a minority) I am fairly certain that the smallish 1.2 Dualogic Panda was bought as a new car by people who didn't intend to be frequently driving long distances, or intended to use it as an economical second car?

Hence my original point about the ECU learning causing such a problem when a 1.2 Dualogic Panda gets low usage/short journeys... as said, I would have thought such use would be reasonably common and should have been expected by Fiat, who should therefore have programmed it to cope? From several responses that this thread has received, it DOES seem to be a problem for many owners.
Click to expand...


Right.


The Dualogic probably was less travelled than the average Panda though and yes, there does seem to be a fundamental design problem and one cannot help think that the short journeys somehow make the matter worse.


There are very infrequent occasions when the 1.2 manual can do this though - the difference is you simply dip the clutch and then thrash the balls off it, just to teach it a lesson.
 
Honda Owner said:
I really wasn't suggesting that people only bought Pandas due to restricted funds... I'd have to be pretty daft to come here and offend people when I'm looking for help! But my apologies if that's how it came across.

People buy new cars for different uses... a 'large barge' would normally be the preferred choice for drivers (or company fleet buyers) who spend a lot of time cruising motorways and racking up a high mileage.
Click to expand...

BTW I didn't think that you were suggesting that people bought Pandas due to restricted funds. No offence taken at all!

I actually prefer the Panda to the Honda as strangely I find it that bit more comfortable than the Honda despite all the ways that you can adjust the driver's seat. :eek:
 
Wee Smurf said:
...I actually prefer the Panda to the Honda as strangely I find it that bit more comfortable than the Honda despite all the ways that you can adjust the driver's seat. :eek:
Click to expand...
I must defend my Accord... it's the most comfortable car I've ever driven (like sitting in a lovely firm armchair)!

Are you on any Accord forums? I'm a regular on the TypeAccord forum.
 
Honda Owner said:
I must defend my Accord... it's the most comfortable car I've ever driven (like sitting in a lovely firm armchair)!

Are you on any Accord forums? I'm a regular on the TypeAccord forum.
Click to expand...

Just me but I find the seat are wider in the Honda and with them being leather I find myself sliding about side to side on them. Makes it uncomfortable on a longer trip for me. I still drive it occasionally if the Panda is unavailable or I need 5 seats as the Panda only has 4. It's easy enough to drive but where the driver's seat is, I feel like I am sitting in the boot of my Panda #slightly longer bonnet!

And no, I stick with the Fiat Forum but husband is on the Honda Accord Owners Club one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
Technical 2006 Fiat Panda - Kangarooing/dropping power when driving
Replies
6
Views
218
FiatPandaBlue
F
Z
Technical Airbag warning after flat battery...
Replies
6
Views
221
GettinBetter
GettinBetter
G
General £35 tax 1.2?
Replies
15
Views
393
Greg123
G
B
Technical 2007 1.2 Eleganza engine management light
Replies
17
Views
844
DaveMcT
D
D
Styling Spot / fog light housings
Replies
2
Views
583
DaveMcT
D
Back
Top