So, before the thread degenerates into the usual twaddle, can we have some opinion on ECU scanners?


1. Android has one called 'Torque' though I'm not sure if it's for Yankee motors.


2. I think our best choice if MultiECUscan. Can you gimme the link?


3. The advantage of Android ones is that you can get them to work (clunkily) with Bluetooth and your Android devise, thus saving you the effort of plugging in the laptop.


4. Ideally something that would also work on a SEAT.........


Ta.

2. http://www.multiecuscan.net/

From hearsay Torque isn't in the same League as MES/FES.
ELM cables come in BT versions too IIRC

4. SEAT is VAG nowadays. VAGcom should work

gr J

:yeahthat:

My understanding is torque is generic engine reader, MES is everything on a Fiat and some other vehicles.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

:yeahthat:

My understanding is torque is generic engine reader, MES is everything on a Fiat and some other vehicles.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I think torque does allow basic resets, but it's more looks than content.


Anyway, now the thread can degenerate as normal.

Sounding thick here but this MES is all fiat? Is that laptop based and what is it persay ?

scott gilmour95 said:

Sounding thick here but this MES is all fiat? Is that laptop based and what is it persay ?

Click to expand...

It's as you think.


1. This is Windows based software (the only mobile version so far is Windows CE).


2. You need a bit of wire. On one end a USB, on the other a plug - Ebay has them. This bit you plug into your car's brain and the other your laptop. You can then read (and reset) errors/warning and understand what the problem is.


It will also make you ore attractive.

scott gilmour95 said:

Sounding thick here but this MES is all fiat?

Click to expand...

It does some other makes, not sure of them all but Suzuki is on there for example

AB100 said:

So, before the thread degenerates into the usual twaddle, can we have some opinion on ECU scanners?


1. Android has one called 'Torque' though I'm not sure if it's for Yankee motors.


2. I think our best choice if MultiECUscan. Can you gimme the link?


3. The advantage of Android ones is that you can get them to work (clunkily) with Bluetooth and your Android devise, thus saving you the effort of plugging in the laptop.


4. Ideally something that would also work on a SEAT.........


Ta.

Click to expand...

It all depends what exactly you want to do. If all you want to do is reset a Mil light and read an error code - then you can buy a handheld unit for about 10 quid from fleabay.
If you want to look at some parameters on the screen - like temperatures, rpm - and basic stuff - torque is great. (but **** slow)

If you want to a proper diagnostic and analysis tool and test tool for the Fiat, Alfa and Lancia range, then MES is the only option really.

You need an OBD adapter , either bluetooth (not reccommended for any adjustments !!) or USB. torque very basic and generic really, a good program, but not a real tool as such .. it support bt.
MES support BT and USB. BT is NOT reccommended for any adjustments as said, UNLESS you use cantiecar interface.

Also, torque only connects to basic can output - it cannot address individual ecus, neither can the cheap hand held units, MES can and does address ALL the ecus in the vehicle - you have MANY... to speak to and look at them all, you need a set of adapter leads to go on the end of your OBD adapter !
The adapter is usually ELM327 based or VAG COM, ELM 327 is more widely used on our motors.. even then, you wont be able to address the airbag ecu without VAGCOM as well. so you owuld need two interfaces and a set of leads.. AND - MES.. or, there are interfaces such as OBDKEY that allow full connection - with adapter leads - it IS possible to damage the vehicle connector with the wrong lead on certain models - beware ! - usually just a fuse - but !...
Best option, by far, is the multiplex version of MES with CanTieCar interface, this is a multimode interface that is controlled from the MES software - plug and play - no leads or adapters to change.

Again if all you want to do is read a basic error code and turn the light off - then a 10 quid handheld unit off ebay will do that. but it will not, for example, allow you to fault find - say - throttle pot, lighting circuits, steering system - and eveything else that is accesible to the program (MES) - torque doesnt do ANY of that.. and no, it doesnt (MES) support SEAT.

It does, as said above, support two suzuki units only - an SX4 1.9 and 2.0 DDIS - whatever they are

Anyone with a modicum of understanding of the systems and a desire to know what is happening on their own vehicle should have MES registered IMHO.
Fist time you need it, it will pay for itself.. use it every month or so to check the system .
Anyone thinking of buying a fiat / alfa / lancia should take the MES system with them when viewing also.. again, it will MORE than pay for itself as you can see if the car has been clocked, if any faults exist, any major changes have been made, number of times it has been started even !.. as well as full functionality tests.

Well i have been using torque for abit and realised how slow! It is but have always wondered what software to use on a laptop i know vagcom in mainly german but for delphi and that you need to subscribe so this MES sounds perfect how would i download this ?

Did you even click the link on post#2?

gr J

scott gilmour95 said:

Well i have been using torque for abit and realised how slow! It is but have always wondered what software to use on a laptop i know vagcom in mainly german but for delphi and that you need to subscribe so this MES sounds perfect how would i download this ?

Click to expand...

As said scott, click on the link in post 2.

If there is any interest, I will post a thread in the next day or so detailing how to modify the most common ELM327 units available for using with a panda and MES WITHOUT extra adapter cables. The only unit you wont have access to is the airbag ecu.
It will work with the MES registered version (its only about 50 euros and is worth many many amny times that!)
I would still recommend the multiplex version with cantiecar. That is only around 230 euros and again is worth every penny. I use that one, (MUX version) and would not be without it.
I do however, supply modified ELM327 interfaces to folk for MES registered so no cables needed - also to make the ELM327 units work !! - most, if not all the units available are incorrectly designed, They (the chinese) - for some VERY strange reason add a 120 ohm resistor between pins 6 and14 (can H and L) - this needs crunching - also, to save buying a green adapter cable for the panda - you can simply solder from pin 7 to pins 1 and 9 - this will now firstly WORK, and, read all ecus apart from the airbag.

MES is a VERY powerful diagnostic tool, you CAN bugger up your car if you mess around with thhings you do not understand FULLY ..!! - be warned !.. however, if you use common sense it is a most amazing piece of kit.

Having a problem with our 1.2 Dynamic , it went to the Agents for an 80K service, they tell us they cannot access the engine ecu and that the instrument panel does not come on along with now intermittent lack of starting.

When it went in we were having a little trouble with cold start issues, she would'nt start first time and the clock/ instrument panel would reset, BUT only 1st thing in the am , rest of the day no issue.
The Agent is the local Mercedes agent and i get the impression that they are clueless.
Any ideas would be appreciated , sorry if this is incorrectly posted but it seems like a comms issue hence posting it here.

I have tried to read through as much as possible but some of it is over my head.:bang:

somyunguy said:

Having a problem with our 1.2 Dynamic , it went to the Agents for an 80K service, they tell us they cannot access the engine ecu and that the instrument panel does not come on along with now intermittent lack of starting.

When it went in we were having a little trouble with cold start issues, she would'nt start first time and the clock/ instrument panel would reset, BUT only 1st thing in the am , rest of the day no issue.
The Agent is the local Mercedes agent and i get the impression that they are clueless.
Any ideas would be appreciated , sorry if this is incorrectly posted but it seems like a comms issue hence posting it here.

I have tried to read through as much as possible but some of it is over my head.:bang:

Click to expand...

Is there not a FIAT main dealer in your area. ?
Also, is the problem with the instrument panel only AFTER you went to the Mercedes Agent ? - or was it there before ?

For whatever reason the main Fiat dealership closed and was taken over by Maritime Motors who are Mercedes / Jeep agents.

So they are in effect the main dealership in our area. Problem is , it doesn't mean cos you're a Merc tech, that you're a Fiat tech too!

The instrument panel would reset the clock on first start attempt prior to visiting the agents , coupled to a hard starting problem only when cold in the am , but no issues at all through the day!
With a bit of gas and coaxing she would start but not idle immediately and on 2 occasions , the power steering did'nt work , but a restart resolved that.
I had it down to a bad temp sensor , possibly.

Apparently when the techy went to get the car from the wash bay to do the service everything was dead, techy then said he banged the dash and supposedly everything came to life and was able to start the car , apparently though they could not communicate with the engine ECU and are still not able to.

Seems now that this starting problem has become a "permanent" condition.

They claim that they have seen breaks in the PCB on the instrument panel that has caused problems in other cars but does not appear to be the case here.

I'm about ready to kill because this is a new symptom / condition that did'nt exist before and they have no explanation regarding the lack of comms.

Logical explanation is moisture somewhere but that does'nt necessarily explain the lack of comms. They claim to be using the correct software / instruments.

They've had the vehicle for 48hrs for a simple "C" service , if we were waiting for spares it would be one thing but no answers just does'nt cut it!!!

You have a big problem, sorry as I am sure you are aware of that. ...
I find it extremely hard to believe that they cannot communicate with the vehicle. I very much doubt they have the correct equipment anyway, probably just some crappy reader - but .. you would have to ask.
Sounds like a problem was there prior to the vehicle going in. Any 'alleged' mechanic that said he banged the dash would be banged himself. ! and he would not get up...
I would first of all ask what equipment they are using to communicate with the vehicle - the exact make and model - IF they are fiat agents thery should be using Fiat Examiner.
I doubt they are - but ask.
They may VERY WELL have damaged the OBD connector, there is also a fuse for it - luckily - probably replaced with a rusty nail by now.. - if the power is to pin 16, they should still be able to commnicate with SOME of the ecus as they are on different pins (even if one was down) - the common factor would be the supply voltage when key is on MAR - but they are probably too thick to check that....
I dont know the geography of your area ? how far is it to a REAL fiat dealer ?
I would be tempted to hire a trailer and vehicle and tow it there. !

There sounds to be a problem with the dash Marelli ECU, possibly supply voltage.
If you can communicate with the Siemens Body ECU, you can send all test parameters to the dash node.
Check the fuse first for the OBD - F39 10A - to pin 16 of the OBD socket.
Remove the dash - 4 screws for the cowl, 2 screws for the dash - it lifts out and unplugs - follow the wiring and look for any problems.

Also, what happens when you turn the key ? - anything ?
do the indicators work ?
do the lights work ?

If so, then the siemens body ECU is operating and communication should be possible - the lights wont work without a functioning body computer node.
I think you are possibly dealing with idiots / cretins unfortunately ..
They do not seem to have the slightest idea.

You need a Fiat specialist, not someone who can spell it given enough time.. they would probably struggle with that as well.

Let me give you an example how they SHOULD fault find IF they knew what they were doing ..
The steering node is a Delphi unit , it is 'talked to' for diagnostic purposes on the K line on pin 9 - this is exclusive to THAT specific ecu. it also gets it's supply directly from the battery / ignition switch. (a node is a unit on the network in the vehicle - usually - as in this case - an individual computer)

So, with ignition on, the diagnostic equipment is able to talk directly to the computer located on connector pin 9 !..
this computer (ecu) talks to the body computer (Marelli) for SOME of its information. It uses CAN BUS to communicate with the Marelli body node.
IF there is a problem with the body node, it will not be seeeing any signals and will tell you !!!!. If the body node is not functioning , then as said before - the lights wont even work !!.
If they talk to steering node and that is seeing the body node - which in turn is seeing the EFI node, AND the instrument cluster node - then one can see it is fairly simple to deduce what is and is not working !.
Possibly a shorted can bus could explain some issues, but not all - one is not talking via the main can lines when addressing the steering ecu !.

Ask them if they have followed the detailed schematics that Fiat provide for diagnostics, if they say 'what ?' then shoot them - in the head preferably..... :bang:

Adopt the american Hearts and Minds approach, one in the heart, 2 in the mind.

How are these people allowed to work with vehicles ?? - they need greater than single digit IQ

Thank you for the explanation , it may help. I did ask and was told it is the correct equipment but i will be going in tomorrow to see for myself what is going on.

Unfortunately nearest dealer is at least 800km away. There are some sharp electronic system specialists in the area i hear , might be an option. I think these idiots are trying to pull the wool myself.

There are not that many Panda's around here and i think there's a serious lack of knowledge , this is the sort of thing that requires a factory trained technician.

It's just that now , we've gone from a partially troublesome vehicle to a fully suspect one , while in their hands.
I could have done the sodding service myself and taken it somewhere to hook it up!

Just a curiousity , would "Tuner pro" be an option as a diagnostic tool , given the right connectors of course? I have that and "Ecmspy" that i use for my Buell XB9

For the panda get an elm327 v1.4 with USB cable not BT. Then get multiecuscan registered.
If you are into basic electronics, find the 120 ohm resistor between the can pins in the interface and remove it, then jumper the k line on pin 7 to pins 1 and 9.-i am referring to the elm327 interface here. No mods to the car !!!!
Good to go
You can download a demo of mes v19 which has a simulate mode.
It is only 50 Euros and amazing. The elm 327 you should get anywhere - ebay- just avoid the Bluetooth ones.
Cap.

somyunguy said:

Thank you for the explanation , it may help. I did ask and was told it is the correct equipment but i will be going in tomorrow to see for myself what is going on.

Unfortunately nearest dealer is at least 800km away. There are some sharp electronic system specialists in the area i hear , might be an option. I think these idiots are trying to pull the wool myself.

There are not that many Panda's around here and i think there's a serious lack of knowledge , this is the sort of thing that requires a factory trained technician.

It's just that now , we've gone from a partially troublesome vehicle to a fully suspect one , while in their hands.
I could have done the sodding service myself and taken it somewhere to hook it up!

Just a curiousity , would "Tuner pro" be an option as a diagnostic tool , given the right connectors of course? I have that and "Ecmspy" that i use for my Buell XB9

Click to expand...

Check the battery condition the battery clamps and earth cables...

my sisters fiat 500 which is almost identical mechanically to the panda had a bad battery earth to gear box cable...


https://www.fiatforum.com/500-guide...lso-includes-battery-removal-upper-earth.html



this can be proved out using jump start cables...

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-faqs/318839-electrical-gremlin-thread.html