Totally off topic - (but there is our Panda in one pic lol)
I wanted a small project to pass the time ... always loved these.. found one while looking on google street view !!!! - in N Portugal, it was about 1/2 mile from the new house we are looking at. Soooo. went up this morning, found out who owned it - the original little old lady . made a cash offer, which was duly accepted, I am now the proud owner of this throbbing power house of fun and delight..
It will be restored to original condition. (It actually runs ! - just needs the tyre inflating) it is all there as well !, and, no major rot...) - in fact there hardly seems to be ANY rot apart from a tiny bit in the windscreen corner - easy fix.. last MOT (IPO) only ran out last month. Old chap had had a stroke and hasnt driven it for a year or so.. anyway - it's heading for the man cave for a toal strip and mintup and back to new :devil::devil: (There are worth a bomb when restored - it is worth 8 times what I paid for it as it is !! - bargain. ! - even got the GT number plate..

What about a Turbo and some alloys haha ??

I love these! shame it's not the older ones with the more retro cab but still awesome!

Fiatseicento2002 said:

I love these! shame it's not the older ones with the more retro cab but still awesome!

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lol thanks, I would also have liked the earlier ones, but they are fetching up to 18K here ....
Due to the lack of salt over here rot on most vehicles is minimal, luckily. I am thinking of having the chassis / structure glass blasted when stripped , and all the hidden parts bead blasted prior to any welding / priming / painting etc .. the engine / box/ diff unit will be as new, all bolts replated as well. Hopefully, it won't need much of anything apart from time and paint - the back cover has to come off though - for the summer.....
It should look like this...

Very nice

oh, forgot to add for those unfamiliar with these little beauties..
Piaggio APE 50, Made in Italy !!!.. typical Italian - Ape is I believe 'Bee' in Italian...
So, a cousin to Fiat..
Now made in India I think, but this is the real McCoy... check out you tube, the loony Italians even race them haha..

captainslarty said:

oh, forgot to add for those unfamiliar with these little beauties..
Piaggio APE 50, Made in Italy !!!.. typical Italian - Ape is I believe 'Bee' in Italian...
So, a cousin to Fiat..
Now made in India I think, but this is the real McCoy... check out you tube, the loony Italians even race them haha..

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Yeah I love these too. Piaggio still make them of course.


Personally, I prefer them in their unrestored state - same with the old Vespa (wasp) scooters.


They must be a gas to drive!

AB100 said:

Yeah I love these too. Piaggio still make them of course.
Personally, I prefer them in their unrestored state - same with the old Vespa (wasp) scooters.
They must be a gas to drive!

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Haven't had the driving experience yet in it.. but, it will be unceremoniously pushed 400 mtrs (downhill!) to our new house and workshop, trying to find another now as well.. workshop can easilly take 2 in pieces.. would love to do a 135cc conversion and cabrio / cage / cart seat on one, and keep this one absolutely stock.
No tax here on them, no driving licence needed, and, insurance - I believe - is also not needed. (checking tomorrow on the insurance) - but as the Panda is only 200 Euros (ANY driver, ANY age), I cant see it being much if anything. Tax on Panda was 34 Euros.

captainslarty said:

Soooo. went up this morning, found out who owned it - the original little old lady ........it is worth 8 times what I paid for it as it is !! - bargain. !

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Soooo, that's either bull**** or you cheated a vulnerable old lady :worship:
(I hope it's the former )

duncx said:

Soooo, that's either bull**** or you robbed a vulnerable old lady :worship:
(I hope it's the former )

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Nope, I have never seen such a 'vulnerable' little old lady run as fast for the bleeding documents when I made her the offer - like Usain Bolt... no negotiating - nada - I was trying the 'Raminsky 'Match Play' Opening' - a standard punt at a level just above 'total insult' but way below 'reasonable value' (as you do) to open the bidding - bit me bleeding hand off... she even brought a brush to get the leaves off the seat for me :worship:

I thought "Bugger Bugger Damn !! - should have offered WAY less" :bang:



I think all parties were more than 'delighted' at the price paid... dont forget, people work the fields here - little old ladies too ! - for 3 euros an hour !!!.
We only pay our cleaner that ! 0 and that is a good wage (tax free) !

Trying to find another now, gotta have 2.... :devil:

ps, will get pics on Saturday when we pick it up, with said 'vulnerable' little old lady who would probably win a pub fight with a group of navvies !!

captainslarty said:

Nope, I have never seen such a 'vulnerable' little old lady run as fast for the bleeding documents when I made her the offer - like Usain Bolt... no negotiating - nada - I was trying the 'Raminsky 'Match Play' Opening' - a standard punt at a level just above 'total insult' but way below 'reasonable value' (as you do) to open the bidding - bit me bleeding hand off... she even brought a brush to get the leaves off the seat for me :worship:

I thought "Bugger Bugger Damn !! - should have offered WAY less" :bang:



I think all parties were more than 'delighted' at the price paid... dont forget, people work the fields here - little old ladies too ! - for 3 euros an hour !!!.
We only pay our cleaner that ! 0 and that is a good wage (tax free) !

Trying to find another now, gotta have 2.... :devil:

ps, will get pics on Saturday when we pick it up, with said 'vulnerable' little old lady who would probably win a pub fight with a group of navvies !!

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Ah that's ok then, the scary old battleaxe is happy that the rich foreigner paid her only 1/8th of the true value because it's more than she gets working in the fields.

duncx said:

Ah that's ok then, the scary old battleaxe is happy that the rich foreigner paid her only 1/8th of the true value because it's more than she gets working in the fields.

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Absolutely, it is a market economy, one does not give charity, providing said person is happy (or not) but accepts price willingly. In this case said person was more than happy.
'Value' is only what can be achieved in an actual sale in the right place. As with most items of any speciality, most people are totally unaware of the true value to the right people in the right area. It is called business, and, common sense.

Leave the motor stock because modifying really damages the reliability

Fiatseicento2002 said:

Leave the motor stock because modifying really damages the reliability

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Hi sir, this one is definitely staying absolute stock - a full restoration only - not that it needs too much !.

I am, though, looking for another one - or more - , have made tentative offers for two more actually.. one of them I would like to experiment with a large bore kit - I also have a bid in for a complete power unit with diff. If that comes off, I can play with one of the others and still keep a full stock unit.
There are, apparantly, quite a few more or less abandoned in barns and outbuildings around the inner parts of N Portugal near the mountains. Will be looking as we travel about.
In Povoa, where we are at the moment, the council actually use them for transport and general work !!! they have 3 we believe - but the much later ones. - I have heard of one that is supposed to be the early movable front bumper type with square door windows - but have yet to see it... Where we are moving to is just at the edge of the mountanous inland area - they were very common around there. Should be interesting. - it makes me smile every time I see it.

As far as I know the power unit is just the same as you'd find in a normal vespa

Fiatseicento2002 said:

As far as I know the power unit is just the same as you'd find in a normal vespa

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I believe so !, I have a workshop manual - google is your friend lol -
It would appear theat where the rear wheel would be attached, the differential unit is attached on the APE 50. The casings are hence slightly different as the loading of the rear wheel on the scooter and the loading of the differential are completely different. Crank, rod, piston, head, bore, seals, bearings, gear cluster (Xmas tree etc) are I believe all the same. The is no kickstart, the ape is electric start only. The kickstart quadrant is not used or allowed for. The gearchange actuator locator is in a different place. Clutch is the same - electrics are the same.............
I want the spare unit really due to the case castings mainly - and the diff if I can get it.
This one is a 93 model, so no worries with spares, just spending lots of time finding good sources - Beedspeed seem good - ebay is a joke for most - some crazt stuff from the Italians as usal lol ..

As most of the parts are bog standard (Bearings - ball and roller), oil seals, etc, the main parts can be rebuilt easily - there are stacks of small bike shops here that could press the crank with a new pin / BE if needed - a new crank and rod is not expensive -..
However, the engine is a tad oily on the outside (I think this one has the oil pump so you use straight fuel and it is mixed prior to iniduction ?) - I have no idea yet as to the overall state of the power unit. Probably fine. Will get it through the parts washer and casings etc bead blasted and have a good look - all new bearings and seals are so cheap as to be an automatic thing.
I think that the Vespa case gaskets fit as well, even though the castings are different . the differences are in reinforcements and also external parts like extra studs for diff etc.. Looking forward to getting it on the bench.
I have the prerequisite matress to use to 'inspect' the underneath and remove the power unit.
Looking for a towbar for the panda at the moment.. will need to move some large pieces to the blasters and paint shop.. also, looking at a small hitch unit for towing them - should be reasonably simple to make I hope. - attach to front wheel I would have thought was ok ?

I have experience of Vespas but not APE's, the Automixing is good when it works if it doesn't work you can end up running on fuel only and seizing the engine :/

Fiatseicento2002 said:

I have experience of Vespas but not APE's, the Automixing is good when it works if it doesn't work you can end up running on fuel only and seizing the engine :/

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I will certainly watch out for that one lol !!! thanks for the heads up !..
Any tips on the rebuild would be very welcome. Any gotchas to watch for ??

Erm not really they are about as basic as they get mechanically, just becareful because if they get too hot they seize + use good oil like a Synthetic

Cool find. Totally off-topic, but there was similar vehicle manufactured in former Czechoslovakia, which also sells for serious money today - ČZ "Riksha". AFAIK it was manufactured primarily for export to India. My great-uncle used to have one for transporting tools, fertilizer etc. to his vineyard, unfortunately, his grandchildren had it scrapped after his death before I had a chance to react.

Fiatseicento2002 said:

Erm not really they are about as basic as they get mechanically, just becareful because if they get too hot they seize + use good oil like a Synthetic

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Nice..!!

until Suzuki bought Piaggio the motors were all the same..,
still the same basic 2-stroke unit - that was actually a WW2 aircraft starter motor.:slayer:

being around for 60 years now there are huge tuning opportunities,
AS stated , decent oil is always going to help.

great fun vehicles.. just like the other "APE car"
https://www.fiatforum.com/abarth-punto-evo-supersport/

charlie