Technical 100hp no heat and losing coolant somewhere

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Technical 100hp no heat and losing coolant somewhere

aaronparke

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Hi, the heater in my panda isn't warming up and on looking under the bonnet I noticed I've lost some coolant. It was well below minimum.

The carpets seem dry and there doesn't seem to be any dripping under the vehicle.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
What does the oil level look like, and the colour ? also inside the rocker cover ?

Check the bleed screw is tight on the cooling system - not sure where it is on the 1400 twin cam - it is driver side near bulkhead on my 1.2 (LHD !)
Also, top the fluid up, bleed it using the bleed screw(s) ... then, with the top off the fill bottle and the engine cool !! - run the engine at fast idle and check for bubbles in the coolant.. (if you see bubbles suspect head gasket) - note swirling is normal - bubbles - after bleeding - are not. - you will usually be able to smell the burnt mixture as well as the bubbles pop.

Usually you can see if it is just leaking, but a small leak is hard to spot sometimes. Occasionaly you can see them if you take the car for a run, let it idle hot, then inspect around the system with a small torch if necessary...
One has to suspect head gasket if no visible leak but there are usually signs - check the outlet of the overflow pipe from the expansion tank and see if it looks like fluid has been forced out - sometimes you can get a blown gasket where compressed gasses pass to the cooling system. This can sometimes be an issue if pressurised coolant is forced back into the cylinder when engine off as it can cause hydraulic lock in the cylinder. Other times fluid under pressure can pass to an oil gallery / return. - this tends to cause the infamous white sludge (water and oil emulsion) and sometimes a rise in oil level - not a good thing at all !.
Hopefully it is just a simple leak and carefull cleaning and inspection will point it out.

If you cannot find anything, have the system pressure tested, most mechanics / garages can do this. They will also carry out further checks if anything shows up as an internal pressure leak..
 
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I'm lucky in that it is under warranty as I have only just bought it from a major dealer. It's going back in for a cam belt change as there is no evidence of it having had one so they'll check the heater too.

I don't know whether it could be a good thing if the head gasket's gone. It would be a good refresher for the unit to have it changed perhaps?
 
I'm lucky in that it is under warranty as I have only just bought it from a major dealer. It's going back in for a cam belt change as there is no evidence of it having had one so they'll check the heater too.

I don't know whether it could be a good thing if the head gasket's gone. It would be a good refresher for the unit to have it changed perhaps?

one has to ask why it failed (if indeed it is that - probably a small leak), sometimes they let go for no plausible reason - defect in manufacturing etc, but usually it is for a reason. Loss of coolant is one main reason, - this can cause warping of the alloy cyclinder head, but unusual. Having the tits thrashed off it in hte past is another reason.... but ... we digress. ... a common fault is filling the car with diesel by mistake - the car usually grinds to a halt, the system is cleaned out, but residual diesel combusts nicely when the petrol and air and spark is back causing massive cylinder over pressure ... filling with diesel doesnt do the cat any good either as neat fuel tends to endter the cat..
If it is gasket, providing they check the mating surfaces for warping etc you should be fine - sometimes a mild skim is needed on the head, more likely than the block. I am always cautious of delaers warranties as it is their coin for repairs.. if manufacturer warranty, the dealer will usually change far more than needed becuase they effectively get the money back from the manufacturer.. A head gasket change on a new vehicle would probably entail new head bolts, gasket, clean and skim - certainly full checks.. new oil, filter, cooling drain and refill etc etc.. when it is their coin, you would be lucky to get anything more than a new gasket, probably wouldnt even change the oil !.. but, there are SOME good dealers about :rolleyes:
I presume the timing belt change is the full kit ? tensioner, water pump etc ?
Cap.
 
I bought it from a Mazda main dealer but they're sending it to the local fiat franchise for the necessaries. I won't be happy with anything short of a proper job done as I only bought the vehicle a week ago.

I will ensure that they understand I would be expecting the tensioner and water pump doing as part of the cam belt. I'm going to check the carpet now I've topped the coolant up, it may just be the heater matrix...?
 
I bought it from a Mazda main dealer but they're sending it to the local fiat franchise for the necessaries. I won't be happy with anything short of a proper job done as I only bought the vehicle a week ago.

I will ensure that they understand I would be expecting the tensioner and water pump doing as part of the cam belt. I'm going to check the carpet now I've topped the coolant up, it may just be the heater matrix...?

Absolutely ! - on all points. !
it could just be a simple leak from somewhere in the system, if you cant see anything, go for a drive to get it up to temp, then let it idle and inspect, a torch is useful as said before.. also check where pipes go through bulkhead, radiator pipes, everything really..
If they are sending it to fiat, you should get a good job hopefully.
ALWAYS ask for ALL the old parts back - I always insist on that until they have my trust. -
If you are sure the fluid was full and has gone somewhere - then if you do not find a leak tell them to pressure test the system and ensure they know you had a fluid loss.
How long is your warranty for ? - and is it a full monty warranty ? - many exclude lots of things like oil, fluids, gaskets, seals, seriously !!! - jokers. - hopefully yours is a sound warranty and a good dealer. as said, there are SOME about.. they are not all Dick Turpin's
 
Warranty is full and for a year so I've got plenty of chance to be a real pain in the salesman's rear end!

I've not heard of head gasket issues with the 100hp, the motor is pretty long established and a tough unit I believe do yes, something daft no doubt.
 
I've not heard of head gasket issues with the 100hp, the motor is pretty long established and a tough unit I believe do yes, something daft no doubt.

A bit chicken and egg, but one easy way to blow a head gasket is to run the car low on coolant.

As the Cap'n rightly says, they often weep slightly from the bleed screw; easily fixed with a dab of silicone sealant.

If you've lost enough coolant for the heater to stop working, then engine damage (usually a warped head & failed gasket) is quite likely.

SWMBO is well briefed to pull over immediately if the heater blows cold for no apparent reason; there is no coolant control valve in the panda (it's all done with flaps), so unexplained loss of heat output is very likely down to low coolant.
 
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Then someone's budget will be hampered! I picked the vehicle up last week fully serviced with a fresh mot so any low coolant level is either a shoddy service or, more likely, loss in the system somewhere.

The coolant level was about an inch below minimum when I checked it so not severely low but enough to be a concern.
 
The coolant level was about an inch below minimum when I checked it so not severely low but enough to be a concern.

I'd be concerned if the heater stopped working; once the level drops that low, then air pockets can form in the head which will cause it to heat unevenly; & once warped, head gasket failure becomes a question of when rather than if.
 
Well, it's back from the dealers, new timing belt, water pump and tensioner fitted.

The have looked at the heater and returned it as working. However, on driving home it was cold all the way. Took it out later, messed with the controls, buttons on, off, recirc on, off, auto on, off all manner of combinations and managed at one point to get warm(ish) air out for a while on max heat but then cold again.

There are no issues with the coolant system.

Any ideas??
 
Well, it's back from the dealers, new timing belt, water pump and tensioner fitted.

The have looked at the heater and returned it as working. However, on driving home it was cold all the way. Took it out later, messed with the controls, buttons on, off, recirc on, off, auto on, off all manner of combinations and managed at one point to get warm(ish) air out for a while on max heat but then cold again.

There are no issues with the coolant system.

Any ideas??

Yes, indeed, take it back, and tell them you want it returned when the climate control works exactly as it should, in the mean time, you want a loan car.
Their problem dude.;)
 
Calling them today. Just wondered if anyone has had any similar issues.
 
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