Hi,

Does anyone know of an existing clutch upgrade for the 70BHP 1.3 JTD?

I had my panda re-mapped and after a month or two i noticed that when I floor the car and the revs hit 2100 rpm in 3 & 4 th gear clutch slips and the revs just jump to 2500 rpm.

I wanna get a head start for searching for a possible upgrade before the clutch falls apart.

Does the 70BHP JTD use a Dual Mass Flywheel?

Has it ever had a clutch in before sir ?

edit - also, looks like it is NOT dual mass.
Does yours not have cable actuation ? - also, the remap is not going to make that much difference.

Sounds like new clutch time to me.

Could be adjustment as its probably a left hooker with cable,
If it's ever had a clutch before, it may well have been a crappy jelly clutch - made out of Chinese plasticine....
A GENUINE OEM clutch for the oiler will EASILY cope with a simple remap..

A 'Pattern' clutch kit wont, a clutch is not something to buy cheaply. They are not expensive either.

The engine remap will overfuel the engine and burn more fuel so you will get more torque. It will also create much more pollution pro rata.

The clutch and gearbox aren't designed for the higher torque.

The ECU may tell you your mpg will increase after the re-map, but this will be a false reading, doing a proper brim to brim will show you are doing less mpg.

As the saying goes, if it looks too good to be true, it most likely isn't true.

richardllew said:

The engine remap will overfuel the engine and burn more fuel so you will get more torque. It will also create much more pollution pro rata.

The clutch and gearbox aren't designed for the higher torque.

The ECU may tell you your mpg will increase after the re-map, but this will be a false reading, doing a proper brim to brim will show you are doing less mpg.

As the saying goes, if it looks too good to be true, it most likely isn't true.

Click to expand...

The remap is designed to use more fuel - if it is of reasonable quality, it will NOT 'overfuel' the engine, it will supply the needed fuel to give you more torque, but it is not a HUGE amount. The standard OEM clutch will easily handle that.
The ECU will NOT tell you you are doing more MPG unless you drive more gently. it will tell you what mpg you are doing... It will give you a reasonably accurate figure. What looks too good to be true ? - no one said anything about fuel consumption or promises of miracles etc ??
Are you reading a different post ?

The car is a LHD 2003 model with less than 120.000km on the clock. I am guessing the clutch is still the OEM item.

I bought it when it had about 110.000km on it and my EGR died and it caused me a lot of problems. The car wouldn't start, loss of power etc... So I decided that instead of changing the EGR I got the car remapped and the EGR was disabled in the ECU and some more power was unleashed.

The power increase is noticeable! But of course we are talking about a 1300cc diesel engine so we are not discussing huge numbers! MPG remained more or less the same as before if I drive normally and if I push it the fuel consumption is a bit HIGHER. This was done by a professional is not a chinese chip.

So nobody knows if any of the OEM Fiat pressure plates made for the stronger engines will fit?

just fit a quality clutch kit from say luk
be aware there are many copies available on internet sites that arent what they claim
ideally purchase from a motor factor iso affiliated if buying from uk as they wont knowingly sell you copies
good idea getting rid of egr if car still tractable,just because you have more power you don't have to use it and remember a clutch transfers power only so unless abused doesn't need uprating in normal driving

The clutch and especially the gearbox are the weakest parts of the drive train.
Using the extra torque of a remap will increase the chance of the gearbox going "pop".
There isn't an upgrade for the clutch, I reckon you will just have to drive round it.

It may have been slipping a little immediately after the remap (but not enough to notice), which will cause a bit more wear, but not enough to notice.

As you can tell I'm not a fan of remaps, but it did save a new EGR in this instance.
I just don't want forum members to get the impression that engine remaps are the best things since sliced bread.

Over to you captainslarty !

Richard, I personally think remaps are a total waste of money - but that is beside the point...

I do not though, think the gearbox or clutch is a weak area.
As S B Says, any clutch to a GENUINE OEM standard will be fine.
There are just too many cheap but genuine LOOKING clutch kits around, made out of crap and wont last. it is not something to skimp on.

I'll try to get some samples to compare if any of the other pressure plates will fit. And if not I will just go with a Valeo or Luk clutch. I don't buy stuff that is no name and says "OEM equivalent" that's just a complete loss of time.

I did a remap to weasel my way out of an EGR replacement as that is really a pig of a job on a Panda. So the remap and the EGR disabling costed about the same as buying and fitting a new EGR!

But I agree that more or less any power increase modifications should only be considered as a hobby. If you want more power just buy a more powerful car!

The clutch pedal force required for the diesel Panda is much more than the petrol Panda.
This makes me think the designers just went for a stronger spring, and the design is at its limit, which is why they limit the engine torque.
I've replaced 2 duff gearboxes in 1.2 petrol Puntos (same gearbox) and used Valeo clutches which are, as you say, excellent quality.
At least we haven't got a 500, the Haynes manual on EGR valve replacement instructions says if access is too difficult remove the engine !

If it is the same box as the petrol engines, I'd not expect it to live too long in a weasel.

Still, you might look at the clutch and flywheel of a 1.4 16v (but not, I think, of a T Jet). These have a bigger machined bearing area (on the flywheel) and cope very well indeed with the kind of peaky torque a turbocharged petrol 1.1 or 1.2 FIRE engine puts out.

Check the number of teeth unless you want to swap gear rings (or starter motors) over.

For all that, 120,000k isn't at all bad for a standard clutch.

Just some 'stats' for comparison:

'Tuning Box' fitted almost four years ago @ 36k- overfueling chip type, adjustable 1-10.
Standard setting (3) Performance noticeably improved
Up to setting (5) - clutch slip with anything except gentle acceleration
Back to (3) - no clutch slip. Now with 87k still no probs.

MPG more than 10% higher driven in same manner as previously, measured brim to brim over approx 20k (stopped keeping fuel records a while ago) Main reason for adding chip was to improve economy.

Would still be interested in upgraded clutch when the time comes!