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Technical Panda power steering, engine off ??? also MES Current absorbed ??

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Technical Panda power steering, engine off ??? also MES Current absorbed ??

captainslarty

captainslarty

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A Brit in Portugal
Can anyone check something for me on a panda 03 /12 - 169
Mine is a 2004 1.2 8v

Ignition on, engine off, does the power steering operate ?
Mine does, I would have expected it not to as I thought it sensed alternator output ? - also, why have power steering if car is not running.

Please can you check and let me know, or you may know already.

Slightly baffled on this.. cant understand why it is running with ign on and engine not started.
Also getting a warning with MES of high current with engine running, wheel centered and no steering applied, on turning the steering I get a 'normal' reading even through to full lock - again this is baffling and possibly a bug in MES - the only reason I say that is if it was taking high current (too high) (higher than needed ) at idle position, then it should flag an error in the delphi steering ecu, which it does not. The High current and Normal is a parameter that can be selected in the Delphi ecu tests with MES.

Also if anyone HAS MES and capability to read the steering ecu, can you look at the current load (Current absorbed)
Torque sensor seems ok as the effort needed either way is the same, return to center is ok too. I could calibrate it with mes but will await anyones input.

Confused in Portugal :rolleyes::eek:

Sorry for all the questions, :eek:

Cap.
 
Just out of curiosity just checked the power steering.

Ignition on, engine off = Power steering off in mine.
 
On my Seicento (2000 - 2004) the power steering was live with the ign on. Great if you need to push.
On my '06 Panda the steering is dead until the engine is started, but if stalled, the steering will stay powered until ign turned off. Presumably to allow directional control while coasting to a stop if the engine dies. (Same situation on the current Fiesta)
The power steering takes a lot of electric power, so could flatten the battery if used without the engine, so no assistance until started is current practice it seems. If the engine has run, but is stopped without the ign being turned off, steering power may be necessary as described above.
I assume this is controlled within the steering ECU as I thought the power cable was permanent live. If yours is powered without having had the engine run, the ECU may be to blame, but I wouldn't worry unless other faults show.
 
Hi Smurf, what year is your panda please ?
Bill, thanks for the input also, strange the 06 doesn't do it. I will test again from a first morning turn of the key, I had been stopping ans starting the engine yesterday to check various things.
The ecu is a live feed with ignition on, but there are two other feeds of importance, the rev counter - tacho or another speed impulse feed, also alternator (actually a battery voltage monitor) so from those two, it can decide if the engine is running or not. It certainly will put the dash light on for the steering in the event of an alternator output loss when driving, and fall back to manual. If you stall, it sees no tacho, no alternator, ignition on, and carries on without putting the light on or erroring. It must be some weird coding, they probably changed the software in later models, mine was one of the originals, I notice it had a revision done to the coding of both the Airbag ecu and the steering ecu (firmware update) when it was 7 months old - it is a feb 2004 car - ecu firmware updated 9 04.
Possibly there is a difference in models for different climates too ? - getting those details out of fiat may well be difficult,..... ;)
Thanks again guys,
Cap.
 
captainslarty said:
Can anyone check something for me on a panda 03 /12 - 169
Mine is a 2004 1.2 8v

Ignition on, engine off, does the power steering operate ?
Mine does, I would have expected it not to as I thought it sensed alternator output ? - also, why have power steering if car is not running.

Please can you check and let me know, or you may know already.

Slightly baffled on this.. cant understand why it is running with ign on and engine not started.
Also getting a warning with MES of high current with engine running, wheel centered and no steering applied, on turning the steering I get a 'normal' reading even through to full lock - again this is baffling and possibly a bug in MES - the only reason I say that is if it was taking high current (too high) (higher than needed ) at idle position, then it should flag an error in the delphi steering ecu, which it does not. The High current and Normal is a parameter that can be selected in the Delphi ecu tests with MES.

Also if anyone HAS MES and capability to read the steering ecu, can you look at the current load (Current absorbed)
Torque sensor seems ok as the effort needed either way is the same, return to center is ok too. I could calibrate it with mes but will await anyones input.

Confused in Portugal :rolleyes::eek:

Sorry for all the questions, :eek:

Cap.
Click to expand...

mines same year and engine etc
no the power steering does not operate until the engine is running this is probably because it draws a lot of power ( 40A) when in use so is disabled till engine is running.

if its working ok LEAVE it alone. dont mess with settings
 
Hi Jon,
herein lies the issue, IS it working ok ?.
I have had a fault light on the steering and loss of power assistance that cleared at a restart - the logs showed a V low condition, alternator issue, and sensor issue. It has not occurred since, however, it has done little miles since. If the system is supposed to be off with ignition on engine off, then there is a problem. If it is supposed to be on on MY model - which will probably be slightly different to yours as it is for the Portuguese market, then it is possibly ok, apart from the possible fault reading with MES. As said, I am also getting a high current warning from the diagnostics, but not from the ecu.
I can assure you also, that I never 'mess' (as you put it) with settings or anything. !!!
If there is an issue, it will be fixed, I asked for advise on what 'yours' did, not on what to do about it. I will do what ever is needed when I have ALL the info. What I will not do is leave something 'to develop' if there is an issue. recalibration of the centre setting is simple (if you have the correct equipment - which I have) - it simply rules out a possibility without adding to any other possible issues.
ps, it can also draw up to 70A in normal use. Thanks for the feedback on what yours does. Appreciated.
 
Thanks Smurf, nice one,
well, it seems my little bundle of joy is a tad different, or broken lol :) .... ;)
I am going to the local Fiat dealer on Monday to enquire about the cost of a few parts and will ask him what he knows - He also has the Inspector unit there so can take a quick look and compare the readings to MES- it may also be something they did for the UK - ie, make it default on here, but off in the uk due to differing winter temps, or, as said, it may be mine is captain cooked.. No worries. The gear lever unit and cables will cost more than a replacement EPS unit so its good value, and once done, its done.
Dont know if any of you have replaced an EPS, but it looks fairly simple - apart from the bloody clock spring / airbag / switch units / steering lock lol ..
Will see what Fiat PT say on Monday.
Thanks again.
Cap.
 
Well, I found out some more info after more tests today.

The electric steering IS NORMALLY OFF with the engine off and ignition on (MAR). BUT ..... :rolleyes: - what happens is that if you start the engine, turn off the engine, then turn back on the ignition BEFORE the main relay has clicked out (It can take 3 to 7 seconds) the steering is still operative with ignition on and engine off. ! - and will stay on....

This is what I was seeing as I was testing various things, I also had the OBDC connector and laptop plugged in so had ignition on.
It apparently is a stall delay to allow a restart in the event of an engine stall without dropping the steering out. It will stay activated though as long as the ignition is on in those circumstances described.
Well, now I know... all seems ok apart from the high current reading that needs further diagnosis. I think they may be an MES bug though - have posted their to ask. Will check with the clamp meter what current it is taking.
Huge thanks to all for the replies and tests, excellent.
 
captainslarty said:
The electric steering IS NORMALLY OFF with the engine off and ignition on (MAR). BUT ..... :rolleyes: - what happens is that if you start the engine, turn off the engine, then turn back on the ignition BEFORE the main relay has clicked out (It can take 3 to 7 seconds) the steering is still operative with ignition on and engine off. ! - and will stay on....

This is what I was seeing as I was testing various things, I also had the OBDC connector and laptop plugged in so had ignition on.
It apparently is a stall delay to allow a restart in the event of an engine stall without dropping the steering out. It will stay activated though as long as the ignition is on in those circumstances described.
Click to expand...

Correct :)
 
I can confirm the last two threads. Parked up on a car park, switched off engine but immediately turned the ignition on to power the aftermarket stereo. I did notice the power steering was still active. Waited in car whilst the missus just 'popped' into a shop for 50 mins(!). When she returned, the car would not start as the battery had drained!. Had a health check done on the battery. It was been declared healthy. That incident was 9 months ago, and the car has had no further starting issues since. I assume the battery was drained powering the power steering.
 
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