I need to test this tomorrow as I suspect this is what is causing all my problems. I have bought a blue tooth ODB scanner today and with Torque Pro I have noticed the air intake temperature readings are wrong. This afternoon when the engine was cold (coolent temp was about 40c) it said the air intake temperature was 30c, by the end of the journey it was reading 23c even tough the engine was much hotter at this point. Today was a cold day around 5c, so there is no way the air temperature could possible be 30c.

I assume this is located near the air intake box, but where is it? Am I right in thinking the 1.1 FIRE engine doesn't have a MAF sensor?

But into the Throttle body I believe.

Are you sure, from what I have gathered it seems the SPI ones had it in the throttle body, but the MPI ones had it as apart of the MAP, but I cannot find any info about the Panda specifically.

JD82 said:

Are you sure, from what I have gathered it seems the SPI ones had it in the throttle body, but the MPI ones had it as apart of the MAP, but I cannot find any info about the Panda specifically.

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You might be right then, I'm not 100% sure TBH, should be able to tell by having a poke around I'd have thought though

It's in the throttle body.

I think you maybe thinking of a MAF sensor, these are usually on the air intake trunking (our little petrols don't have MAFs)

I can't off hand remember which one it is though, all I can remember is, as you stand in front looking back:
the front left is Idle control valve
the rear right the MAP sensor (oblong box looking thing)

I'm not even sure it's a replacable item, the Idle control valve I know isn't.

There are some Youtube guides to testing them, though I can't link in from work sorry!

This is about the best guide I coulf find.
http://askpete-hella.com/2010/09/17/iat-sensor/

The think I've read somewhere the sensor reading isn't necessarily a indication of the outside air temp. (except at cold start).

The air temp will alter when it enters the throttle body depending on speed, engine heat etc.

In other words it might be normal for it to be reading 30c when it is only 5c outside? Just when I think I have cracked it looks like I am back to square one

I'm not 100% sure, but you can test if it works rather easy.
You'll need to remove the airbox first.

Then take a cold engine reading.
Then fire a hairdryer in the throttle body (hold the butterfly open) and you should see the temp climb.

I'll check mine tomorrow from a cold start, then again when warmed up.
See what readings mine gives at different coolant temps.

BTW, did you check the fuel system status from cold start?
Did is start in "open loop" then after a few minutes enter "closed loop"?

Thanks that will be a massive help. Mine tends to start ok e.g read something sensible, then on the same journey will shoot up to about 18c. Then about an hour later I will use it again and it will start at say 25c even though its freezing and end at 10c.

So it doesn't make any sense that the air intake temperature can be hotter when it is when the engine is colder. It can only be the heat from the engine that increases this value, other than the weather temperature.

Certainly goes into closed loop when it is supposed to, but not checked if it starts on open loop.

Righty oh.
Mine at cold start.
12c coolant
10c air intake.

After a short warm up and short drive. (1/2 mile)
81c coolant
13c air intake

Don't know if that helps.

Thanks, was that the first journey of the day? If so I think mine will behave the same, it is say after 2 miles or so I start to get the odd readings like 30c on a cold engine then 18c when the journey is finished. I will do a short journey tomorrow just to compare. I postponed my job tonight as I didn't fancy driving in this wind.

Wasn't first thing in the morning but the car had been stood for 4 hours, so it should have been stone cold.

If you're still getting the MIL lit on ocassions and it clears when turning off, all I can suggest it leaving the adapter connected and your phone/tablet paired for a while.

When it lights, pull over (don't don't switch off) and do a Code read there and then, see what it throws up.

I suspect it will be related to a misfire, but you never know.

That is my plan but I don't like leaving it in over night in case it drains the battery and also I suppose it could be a slight fire risk. The problem is I don't like constantly plugging in and out either in case I damage the port.

What I am doing at the moment is just leaving it when I have longer journeys, to me they are like 5 miles. I really do need to it out for a proper run.

Will change the HT leads anyway.