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Technical 1.2 8v Cambelt failed - Advice please?

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Technical 1.2 8v Cambelt failed - Advice please?

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Chris155

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Hiyar

I've been roped into fixing a friend's 2004 Panda (engine as above). It sounds like it doesn't have any compression and after taking the cam cover off I've found the cam belt doesn't look too good - It's supposedly just had a new one and a tensior fitted by the PO (a garage but it was a private sale. It would appear that it's been rubbing against something and it's tight up against the block and head rather than running along the middle of the cam pulley.

So I have a couple of questions as follows;

1. Is this an interference engine? - I think the timing has slipped so am I looking at bent valves?

2. Are any special tools required to set the cam timing?

3. ARe there any pitfalls I should be aware of - Someone else has managed to balls it up, I don't want to do the same thing!


Thankyou!
 
Chris155 said:
Hiyar

I've been roped into fixing a friend's 2004 Panda (engine as above). It sounds like it doesn't have any compression and after taking the cam cover off I've found the cam belt doesn't look too good - It's supposedly just had a new one and a tensior fitted by the PO (a garage but it was a private sale. It would appear that it's been rubbing against something and it's tight up against the block and head rather than running along the middle of the cam pulley.

So I have a couple of questions as follows;

1. Is this an interference engine? - I think the timing has slipped so am I looking at bent valves?

2. Are any special tools required to set the cam timing?

3. ARe there any pitfalls I should be aware of - Someone else has managed to balls it up, I don't want to do the same thing!


Thankyou!
Click to expand...


1 = non- interference design

2 = it's just an eccentric clamp washer on a BIG bearing - so twist around until tight + lock-up

3 = if you remove the bottom ( crank) pulley mark it up so you don't get the firing 120' or 240' out,

look in the GUIDES for pictures of panda / punto engines,


Charlie - Oxford
 
Last edited:
varesecrazy said:
1 = non- interference design

2 = it's just an eccentric clamp washer on a BIG bearing - so twist around until tight + lock-up

3 = if you remove the bottom ( crank) pulley mark it up so you don't get the firing 120' or 240' out,

look in the GUIDES for pictures of panda / punto engines,


Charlie - Oxford
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies but I'm still a little confused.

I've found a guide for a pinto here;

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/237966-1-2-8v-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement.html

Andy monty is saying that you do need special tools and he also suggests in his preamble that it is an interference engine.

- it does look to be same as the engine in the panda - the mount and the top cam cover are all but identimickle...
 
I thought it was only the 16v ones that where interference engines, 8v should be easy enough swap don't need to worry about bent metallic bits
 
Hi again,
my understanding is that all the 1.1 and 1.2 panda and pinto 1 + 2 1242cc's are ALL safe -engines,
the GP engine is a different beast - as found in the later 500 + panda's.

my advice would be fit a new belt , re-time the engine, wind over 2 complete revolutions and check the marks again,
fire it up and see what happens,


if it's a safe engine all is well,
if it's NOT (unlikely) then the damage was already done,
Charlie
 
Think this looks fairly sorted but just to add my 2 pence. I was of the understanding like a few others, that the 1.2 FIRE engine was non-interference until the bhp increased to 69 on the Panda. I think this coincided with the CO2 emissions being cut. Therefore, if your 1.2 8v costs over £100 a year to tax, it's non-interference. If it's £30 to tax (at current rates) it's interference.

All 500 and New Panda 1.2's are interference, and all Fiat 1.2 16v engines are interference, but on the previous shape Panda, the above applies.
 
JTD_Liam said:
Think this looks fairly sorted but just to add my 2 pence. I was of the understanding like a few others, that the 1.2 FIRE engine was non-interference until the bhp increased to 69 on the Panda. I think this coincided with the CO2 emissions being cut. Therefore, if your 1.2 8v costs over £100 a year to tax, it's non-interference. If it's £30 to tax (at current rates) it's interference.
Click to expand...

It's not quite that simple. £30 tax came in with the introduction of the eco models - achieved IIRC by using fully synth oil & ecotyres but retaining the 60bhp Euro4 engine.

At a later date, the move from Euro4 > Euro5 saw the compression ratio increase & output went from 60bhp to 69bhp - (the 1.2 500 had the 69 bhp Euro5 engine from launch, but was only homolgated to Euro5 from the 2010 model year). AIUI it's the move from 60 > 69 bhp that makes it an interference engine (can anyone actually confirm this?)

So some £30 tax Pandas have the 60bhp engine (I know this for certain as I've got one), and these should be a non-interference design.
 
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Chris155 said:
Thanks for the replies but I'm still a little confused.

I've found a guide for a pinto here;

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/237966-1-2-8v-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement.html

Andy monty is saying that you do need special tools and he also suggests in his preamble that it is an interference engine.

- it does look to be same as the engine in the panda - the mount and the top cam cover are all but identimickle...
Click to expand...

Your engine got a square push fit oil cap or a round screw ratcheting cap?
 
The 1.2 8v engine can be done without any special tools or crank/cam locks etc. It is easier obviously to have the correct tools, but if you don't want to splash out on them, it's not a hard job to do without. The bearing is held with a 13mm nut, and this needs to be done up tight.

As said before, ensure the timing is right using the marks on the flywheel and the groove cut out on the cylinder head (iirc about one tooth lower than 270dgs), 2 rotations and recheck. Can't imagine it taking longer than 2.5hrs (y)
 
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Thanks for all the advice. It's now fixed...ish.

Things weren't helped by the lack of a locking wheel key, It took me 3 hours to remove it as it was one of those special one with a free rotating collar. With the wheel off it only took 2 hours to find the problem, reset the timing and put it all back together.:)

So this was the problem;

IMG_7581.jpg


IMG_7584.jpg


IMG_7595.jpg


IMG_7601.jpg


IMG_7604.jpg


IMG_7605.jpg


IMG_7608.jpg


IMG_7613.jpg


So, it looks to me like the guy who sold the car and changed the belt, put the tensioner on back to front, causing the belt to run off behind it. - The cam timing was 90 deg out.

Tensioner alignment as I found it;

IMG_7616.jpg


IMG_7625.jpg


And as I assume it should have been fitted;

IMG_7619.jpg


IMG_7622.jpg


I said it was fixedish because the water pump needs replacing - It feels like its pumping gravel rather than water... :rolleyes:
 
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jrkitching said:
It's not quite that simple. £30 tax came in with the introduction of the eco models - achieved IIRC by using fully synth oil & ecotyres but retaining the 60bhp Euro4 engine.

At a later date, the move from Euro4 > Euro5 saw the compression ratio increase & output went from 60bhp to 69bhp - (the 1.2 500 had the 69 bhp Euro5 engine from launch, but was only homolgated to Euro5 from the 2010 model year). AIUI it's the move from 60 > 69 bhp that makes it an interference engine (can anyone actually confirm this?)

So some £30 tax Pandas have the 60bhp engine (I know this for certain as I've got one), and these should be a non-interference design.
Click to expand...


Aah, I see. The trouble was I thought that the CO2 came down at the same time they upped the bhp - didn't realise it was done in 2 stages (CO2 first, then extra bhp).

Learnt something new anyway, thanks for that. Sorry for causing any confusion - I'll leave quietly :eek: ;)
 
JTD_Liam said:
Learnt something new anyway, thanks for that. Sorry for causing any confusion
Click to expand...

It's Fiat that's causing the confusion. To make things even more complicated, pre 2010 1.2 69bhp 500's are homolgated to Euro4, even though the engine is actually Euro5 compliant according to its published emissions :confused: :rolleyes:.
 
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