Hi!

I would like to hear from you if this is normal. I own a 2008 Panda Cross 1.3 multijet with a full service history (128 000 km). I am very happy with this little car and we travel all over Europe with this, and has been relatively problem-free for a long time.

However, about three months ago, the car started to run as if it was only running on three cylinders, with a distinct increase in the "diesel rattle" noise. After taking in to our Fiat garage, a failed diesel injector was identified as the culprit and replaced. (530 Pounds thank you very much). Now I do know a little about cars, and this seemed very strange to me - a diesel injector is essentially a part with low failure-rates, simply due to the fact that there are no moving parts involved. But - I wrote it off as one of those statistical anomalies which sometimes happens.

Guess what? This last week it feels like the same problem is back! This is only about two months since the last problem. How on EARTH could this be? If it is another diesel-injector failure, I will burst a vein in my head. Has anybody experienced this? I used the search function and cannot find similar issues. It feels and sounds almost like a car running on three cylinders. CORRECTION: Two cylinders. Sounds like TWO!


Thanks friends.

If a different injector it could be a duff lot of fuel you've used? Equally how do they know it was the injector? Did they test it? Try to clean it etc?

Hi MEP,

I am taking the cripple old thing in on Monday.
But to try to answer your question: we live in Switzerland, so the diesel is fine, I even filled it with Shell V-Power at the moment. I have tried STP Diesel cleaner and injector cleaner, no effect. I returned from a road trip from Zurich (250 km), and is now worse. The technicians at the local Fiat dealership are pretty good, but I just fear that even if it is the same injector giving the problem they won't tell me. That is a bit cynical, as they are generally known for their honesty. If it is the same injector I will make a bit of noise about it.
I am at this moment simply guessing that it must be the injector. Diesel engines have the advantage that it can't be a spark-plug or HT-leads. :-D But it sounds and feels the same, you know?

I'm astonished at the cost of repair. I have a MJ and it's a five minute job to take the air cleaner assembly off to get at the injectors. New injectors are very pricey I suppose, but garage labour rates in Switzerland are even higher than I thought they might be.

£65 for a used one if you want to risk it:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROME...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43b6a045ea

Reconditioned ones are £174 on ebay.

Hello Tommo,

Yes, welcome to the country of ridiculous costs. I have pulled out the invoice here to quote for you.

Unit cost for a reconditioned injector: CHF 450.70
Labour: CHF 70 + CHF 112 = CHF 182
Extras: CHF 17.40

Total: CHF 702.10!!!

Thanks for the link. The problem is that I do not know which injector is the problem, nor am I a 100% sure it is an injector problem. I can't be anything else though. Flies like a duck, sounds like a duck, etc - you know what I mean!

PS: I have just noticed they did print on the invoice that it was the 2nd cylinder injector. I wonder 2nd from which side? Or firing-order? If I know then I can nail them on the fact that it was the same bugger. At this point in time, it is all a bit speculative.

It has turned out that another diesel-injector has to be replaced. :bang:

TWO injectors in 4 months. CHF 700 a pop.


My father did warn me against buying this ITALIAN JUNK.

Dieselfan said:

My father did warn me against buying this ITALIAN JUNK.

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Steady now!

It a different injector? Has it been investigated as to an they've failed?

Dieselfan said:

CHF 700 a pop.

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Blimey, that's almost £500 . Given the higher cost of the fuel here, it makes buying a diesel a bit of a joke.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Steady now!

It a different injector? Has it been investigated as to an they've failed?

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Yep, according to them it is the 4th injector, the previous one was the 2nd. This morning they told me if it was the 2nd, it was in fact covered by a 1 year warranty.
Unfortunately, my technical French is not great, but my head wants to explode at the idea why on earth ANOTHER injector has become faulty in the space of a few months?
When I asked WHY, I get the typical mechanic / franchise dealer shoulder shrug.

jrkitching said:

Blimey, that's almost £500 . Given the higher cost of the fuel here, it makes buying a diesel a bit of a joke.

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Twice. So that is £1000 in 4 months. Better believe it.

Dieselfan said:

Twice. So that is £1000 in 4 months. Better believe it.

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Ch***t, that's my total annual budget for maintenance, servicing & depreciation. I kept my previous car for almost 10 years and the lifetime bill for unscheduled repairs was under £500.

I'd want all 4 done for that price.

I'd be suspecting contamination and be questioning how long have the other 2 injectors got left.

I'd also be wondering how contamination got into the high pressure side and what damage it's done to the hp pump on it's way through.

Any history if a fuel filter change? is there a filter element inside your filter case?

maybe you filled up in another country and got a bad batch but the tank screen (pre lift bump) should take out the big stuff and the filter in the engine bay should look after the fine bits.

Louie Bee said:

I'd want all 4 done for that price.

I'd be suspecting contamination and be questioning how long have the other 2 injectors got left.

I'd also be wondering how contamination got into the high pressure side and what damage it's done to the hp pump on it's way through.

Any history if a fuel filter change? is there a filter element inside your filter case?

maybe you filled up in another country and got a bad batch but the tank screen (pre lift bump) should take out the big stuff and the filter in the engine bay should look after the fine bits.

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I wish I can ask these questions. I live in Switzerland and always fill up at the same place(s). It has a full-service history and last done was at 120 000 km, only 8000 km ago. But thanks for your info, I will try to ask them when I get the car back. The whole thing is rather odd isn't it?

Sorry I thought you said you travel all over Europe... more than 250 miles from home and I'd be looking to fill up before making it home...


If the fuel filter element was not renewed when the first injector was replaced I'd be asking why not as it's not something I'd expect to be missed, and I consider it the prime suspect for causing premature injector failure, closely followed by dirt ingress when the fuel system post filter is opened (which don't really happen if your not replacing HP pipes or perhaps the filter).

I'd be reluctant to pay the full price as I'd suspect it was a contributing factor to the premature failure of the second injector.

Further more I'd be checking inside the fuel filter for an element (someone may have forgot to put a new one in), and it's condition before paying the new bill. If the element is missing or has an obvious hole, I'd be asking for all my money back and a full set of new injectors and a new pump, although i don't know if I'd get them.

Glad I don't pay for much repair work...

Thank you very, very much for the info. I appreciate it. I will most certainly put all your notes into my best French combined with an angry face to see how far I will get tomorrow.

I will report back!

Report back: The news is getting worse.

No explanation can be given for the failure of TWO injectors 4 months apart. It has apparently happened only three times before (according to the knowledge of this garage) with two Puntos and one Panda - all Multijets.

But here is the punch-line friends. I have been told that the remaining two injectors are not in good order either, and will likely give problems soon. I am not kidding you. It is at this point that I wanted to explode.

They suggest I must contact head-office in Torino (Turin) directly to see if they will see their way in taking on this case. The total cost of replacing FOUR injectors will come to ONE-THIRD of the current value of the car. :dead:

So I will report back on how the kind folks at Fiat HQ will handle this situation.

I know you said you didn't fill up with fuel in another country, but have you thought about taking it to France, Italy or Germany to have the work done? Might be cheaper.

In fact thinking about it, :idea: maybe you could go for a short break in Italy and have both remaining injectors replaced together. You might find the saving pays for the few days holiday.

I like the way you think Mr. Beard. I haven't thought of that. Thank you - very, very good point.
Maybe I can even negotiate a volume discount on diesel-injectors!

We are 12 kms away from France and 40 kms from Italy. We have in fact done breakfast in Switzerland, lunch in Aosta (Italy) and dinner in Chatel (France) all in one day. And the Italians love the Orange Cross. The Cross is also very popular here in Switzerland.

I've thought of doing that myself, but breakfast in England, lunch in Scotland and dinner in Wales isn't a realistic prospect. It's do-able but the thought of 150 miles in the rain isn't very appealing although.....:idea:.....I wonder if I can interest members on here in breakfast in Dover, lunch in Dijon, afternoon tea in Geneva and dinner in Aosta.

Any interest?

The Beard said:

I wonder if I can interest members on here in breakfast in Dover, lunch in Dijon, afternoon tea in Geneva and dinner in Aosta.

Any interest?

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That's the sort of trip that's more fun (though considerably more expensive) done in a light aircraft.