General panda 100hp shocks/springs/steering/handling

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General panda 100hp shocks/springs/steering/handling

gquarzo

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Hi there all....I am relatively new here and have a Panda 100hp.
I was wondering if anyone has ever fitted STAC shock absorbers on the car since in my opinion costs forced the panda 100hp to not have the best shock absorbers/springs at its low pricepoint and there are NO specific aftermarket shock absorbers or springs for the Panda 100hp?
The Panda 100hp has a wider track than standard pandas and the body is also stiffer so retro fitting normal panda shocks or konis/bilsteins designed for the normal panda is not where I am looking. I believe that the ride quality is due to the shock absorbers being unable to control rebound effectively but the cars were developed on much smoother roads than UK roads because I noticed in Italy on smooth roads you seldom feel the lack of damping.
Some of the 100hps raced in Poland use STAC shock absorbers and they were used on the Panda 1.2/1.4 Rally cars too I believe. Anyway I feel that there must be an alternative to the present setup built specifically for the 100hp.
I also feel the 100hp has overwide tyres to compensate for the height of the car and the added speed round corners for safety reasons only. I feel too much rolling resistance with the 195s...i remember even recent hot hatches having 185 section tyres but maybe this would improve not only ride but acceleration since thinner tyres have less grip generally but improve in acceleration and fuel economy usually.
One final point....is the electric power steering centrally connected?does anyone know because the specs say rack and pinion "with" electric assistance which I understand means the rack and pinion is still there mechanically as a back up in case the electric steering fails. I theory the car could just run on the unnasisted rack and pinion setup. I just wish the steering had a weightier feel than the sport mode.
Anyway these are just some things I was wondering about and wished to have an opinion on. thanks
 
Damping. Have a look at the koni thread. Koni Sport (which are adjustable) or Koni STR.T shocks are a good way forward to increase damping. These are designed for road use where I expect the race / rally shocks that you refer to are way too firm for the road, and probably very expensive.

Tyre width. Doubt you'd notice any difference between 195 and 185.

No idea about the steering!
 
You're bang on with the weak rebound. Look at the Koni thread - I absolutely agree with the point that it would be preferable to see a Koni, say, or a Bilstein specifically made for the 100HP, but the Konis are adjustable (not on the car on the back unfortunately) and make a big difference.

Don't see why you'd go for narrower tyres, difference would be minimal or even negative. If you retain the section/percentage height, a narrower tyre will give you a slightly smaller rolling radius but, once again, you'd never spot the difference in the car's acceleration. Any increased tendency for wheelspin is surely a bad thing; one of the relatively weak points of the 100HP is traction and anything that makes this worse is a mistake.

I'm afraid you're way out on the steering - though I agree with you that power steering on all these small cars is ridiculous. I gather you think the car has steering by wire and any mechanical rack and pinion is there as back-up. Wrong - thank goodness, the idea of that sort of setup is too scary to contemplate. The steering is by rack and pinion and the assistance helps to turn the steering column in the direction you're moving it. To give artificial weight to the steering, it's set up with loads of castor return - like all the other small cars - which makes the steering horribly heavy when the power assistance is not available. I'd sooner the front suspension and steering was designed so that no power assistance was necessary and you could have genuine feedback through the wheel but it's apparently essential - for marketing reasons - for cars to offer zero-load steering when parking when a little effort under those circumstances would be more than offset by the benefits of unassisted steering. Compare the steering of a Cinquecento Sporting with the Seicento.
 
Thanks for the input Dan and Babbo!

Yes I saw the threads on the Koni sports which are the only sport damper for the “normal” panda. However these were designed for that car not the 100hp which has poly bushes, wider tracks and stiffer bodyshell. Sure Koni lists it as fitting all the pandas including the 100hp because the weight at each axle is not so dissimilar but from the threads I read …with concern…they are not a straight bolt on fit and that I seem to recall the lengths of the Konis are not the same as the original equipment Panda shocks (made in brazil when I looked underneath on the sticker) and so require some adjustment to even fit! I concur you can adjust their rebound rates but I want the shock to be a direct bolt on fit, not something you have to adjust to fit! I admire Konis because I fitted them on another car straight on and they are slightly softer than bilsteins but good quality.
Same issue regarding springs…Eibach make a kit for all the pandas and since the Panda 100hp is already lowered compared to other pandas and has different standard springs I am not sure how much they would help either.

Maybe the Koni sport shocks are the only realistic alternative since they are adjustable but the Panda Rally 1.2 was competing before the Panda 100hp road car came out and I remember both cars being on the stand in Birmingham when the panda 100hp was launched. Presumably a “little” of the experience gained with the rally car was used in the panda 100hp development which could explain why EVO magazine praised the Panda 100hp chassis so much compared to the Fiat 500. Yes I guess the STAC shocks would be very expensive but that does not make them assuredly firm would it, just very well damped. I would expect because it is a much much more expensive shock absorber it would be able to control the damping much better on rebound and at speed the ride would be an improvement on the cheap ones Fiat fitted as standard equipment to the panda 100hp …and would not have any fitting issues.

Regarding tyres Dan And Babbo it is just I “feel” lots of rolling resistance with the Goodyear f1s which have a specific “rain pattern” for wet weather handling and bog down (for more than an instant since I compare with previous hatches I drove) from standing starts. I would have preferred an asymmetric tyre for dry handling since I drive cautiously when wet anyway. Maybe it is the tyre that is the issue and a stickier Avon or one with low roll resistance will be better when I next come to change.
Regarding width yeah there is not a “lot” between 195 and 185 but another superb handler (alfasud 1.5ti) with more power (105hp) of the 80’s had 185 section tyres which kept the balance of the car and had superb grip but I dislike “personally” cars with too much grip; obviously you and others might prefer more grip. As I said the Panda is tall and I guess wider tyres help in the “elk test”.

Thank you for the information about the steering Babbo. I agree totally that the electric assistance to the steering is ridiculous! Yes previous Fiats I owned without assistance felt much more communicative and I agree that the panda should have been engineered without assistance. As a magazine pointed out the “sport” button increases resistance a further 20%....they wrote it should be increased much more than that really since it not a lot weightier with the steering on.


BTW anyone in the UK been able to interpret the chip yet for the engine for better perfomance? Only people I saw who do it are in Italy...Protoxide which have a feature on youtube on it while they prepare the panda 100hp.
 
I'm using 185/55r14 winter tyres, and the car feels more adjustable than it does on its 195s.

Yes, there's less dry grip, but the car is more supple, and doesn't feel overburdened with grip, so it allows for more mid corner creativity.

Off topic, but on a wet, cold, greasy roundabout, the Dunlop WinterSports make the car so quick and grippy that I'm going around the outside of everyone. Childish? yes.....but you know what these cars do to your driving :)
 
I'm using 185/55r14 winter tyres, and the car feels more adjustable than it does on its 195s.

Yes, there's less dry grip, but the car is more supple, and doesn't feel overburdened with grip, so it allows for more mid corner creativity.

Off topic, but on a wet, cold, greasy roundabout, the Dunlop WinterSports make the car so quick and grippy that I'm going around the outside of everyone. Childish? yes.....but you know what these cars do to your driving :)

Sounds like fun.

I'd bet that the difference you're noting is more to do with rubber mix and tyre construction than the section, though a change from 45% to 55 is going to be noticeable. With the (standard size) Vredesteins I find the wet road grip is exceptional - a tread design issue - and - unlike other tyres in this category that I've tried - they are very good in damp conditions, where rubber mix and compliance are the important factors - enabling me to play bears if I feel like it.
 
I'm using 185/55r14 winter tyres, and the car feels more adjustable than it does on its 195s.

Yes, there's less dry grip, but the car is more supple, and doesn't feel overburdened with grip, so it allows for more mid corner creativity.

Off topic, but on a wet, cold, greasy roundabout, the Dunlop WinterSports make the car so quick and grippy that I'm going around the outside of everyone. Childish? yes.....but you know what these cars do to your driving :)

I was also thinking about 185/55/14 as opposed to the OEM size.
What wheels are you using?
Are there any Fiat wheels that bolt straight on e.g. from the 1.2 4x4 ?

Also will 14" steel wheels fit fine?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14-Fiat-P...Car+Make:Fiat|Model:Panda&hash=item5407826108
 
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I'm using Seicento Sporting 14in for my winter tyres,but have to use longer bolts than standard.

I can't see any reason why 14in Panda rims wouldn't work.
 
Do you work for STAC??:D... i've been driving a brand new peugeot 208 for the last few days while my 100hp gets its damage fixed and its made me realise just how good the HP is... the three cylinder engine in the pug is a gem but in every other ways my panda runs rings round it and the handling is in a different class.
 
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not sure where the op got the idea that the 100hp has a stronger shell, I've never seen any evidence to support this. Modern cars are seldom produced with these sort of differences anyway, it would be far cheaper just to make all the Pandas stiffer rather than some stiff and some not so stiff.
 
not sure where the op got the idea that the 100hp has a stronger shell, I've never seen any evidence to support this. Modern cars are seldom produced with these sort of differences anyway, it would be far cheaper just to make all the Pandas stiffer rather than some stiff and some not so stiff.

Agreed - can't believe Fiat would mod the shell for a low production variant. The Panda shell is very strong anyway, helped by the small size.
 
Agreed - can't believe Fiat would mod the shell for a low production variant. The Panda shell is very strong anyway, helped by the small size.

Yeah, one of the few I can think of is the Subaru Impreza, some of the homologation cars have a bulkhead welded in behind the seats to aid torsional rigidity. But this is done because they're designed to be competition cars.... the 100hp is just a normal Panda with better suspension, brakes and a 1.4 under the bonnet. I think someone has been confused by the term chassis which can sometimes mean the bodyshell and sometimes mean the bodyshell and the suspension settings that go with it.


The idea is frankly ridiculous.....
 
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