General New Panda held up in factory shut-down
- Thread starter fiat_freak
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General New Panda held up in factory shut-down
They so should have left the Panda production in Tychy.....!
Hmm...might not be getting our new Panda next month then!
Thankfully we are not in any rush to get our new car so I guess it will come when it comes.
On the subject of the strike, talk about bad timing for Fiat though - that's probably the last thing they would have wanted so soon after production began again.
Thankfully we are not in any rush to get our new car so I guess it will come when it comes.
On the subject of the strike, talk about bad timing for Fiat though - that's probably the last thing they would have wanted so soon after production began again.
romfordtony
New member
I am sure that I read somewhere on the net that the old Panda was still being produced for some European markets Does anybody know if they are still building the mk11 in Poland?
romfordtony
New member
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2010/05/articles/pl1005019i.htm. just found this link that seems to suggest that the old Panda will continue to be available alongside the new one
Philip Young
New member
Hmmm, has there been a strike in the printers of the Panda brochure as well, no dealer seems to have one, and its been announced and out now for some time. Drives very differently to the older model. Having bought one, the car was promised for the end of the month. Maybe now that wont be happening....
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no they stopped building the mk2 may 2003
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Looks like its the lorry drivers on strike which means basically nothing is going to be coming out of Italy for a while. Thing is they are on strike due to fuel price rises as a result of the financial mess Italy is in, but surely they are only causing more harm to themselves as the world will be avoiding Italian exports. Poor Fiat have got caught up in a mess which is not their own making, but with Italy being a country which seems "strike happy" you have to question whether it is viable to continue basing the amount of production there that is currently, particularly with the Italian factories being allegedly half as productive as those elsewhere.
babbo_umbro
Established member
I don't see Marchionne being too patient if labour relations cause a series of problems - whether it's direct or a secondary effect like the current strike.
Has Tychy (for example) ever gone on strike? Apart from the Chrysler factories do Fiat have anywhere else outside of Italy? AFAIK Fiat totally refurbished the factory so they could build the new Panda there, so it couldnt have cost a huge amount (when factoring in the poor productivity and union concessions in Italy as costs) to locate the factory in another country perhaps in Eastern Europe like the Czech Republic (im sure VW, Kia, PSA/Toyota are there for a reason
) or a further plant in Poland (what does Bielsko-Biała do apart from build the multijet?), or even Slovakia or Hungary. Particularly with unemployment in Europe being so high, im sure theres a government somewhere prepared to be very generous to secure jobs (though the EU would be bound to interfere). Its not like all fords are built in America, Opels and Volkswagens built in Germany, etc, etc. It all very well a company being patriotic, but we live in a global economy these days and if one strike can bring an entire country and the majority of the company to a halt (as appears the case here) then the obvious thing to do is to relocate part or all of production elsewhere. Unfortunately politics still seem to dictate a lot of Fiat decisions rather than economic reality.If they are worried about the name (Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino) they could always build a factory in Ireland (Fabbrica Ireland Automobili Tallaght for example) lol
Fiat do have a fair few plants outside Italy - a factory in Turkey makes the Qubo & Doblo along with their commercial vehicle equivilents, whilst the Scudo is made in france as part of the joint venture with Peugeot-Citroen.
Then Tychy (Poland) makes the 500 (including 500c & Abarth), Panda (2003 onwards) & Lancia/Chrysler Ypsilon.
Their Serbian factory will make the new 500L, whilst the Lancia Flavia, Thema & Voyager (plus Chrysler versions) are made in the Chrysler factories in the US & Canada so they do have a fair few outside Italy but it means the following models are still made in Italy:
New Panda (Naples)
Punto & Abarth versions (Melfi)
Bravo (plus Lancia/Chrysler Delta & Alfa Giulietta) in Cassino
Alfa MiTo plus Fiat Idea & Lancia Musa (Mirafiori, Turin)
Obviously that leaves Fiat and Alfa particularly vulnerable, but less so Lancia/Chrysler & Fiat Commercial. Even so im sure Sergio wont be amused as he's quoted as saying at the Geneva motor show that the new Panda production in Naples is a 'controlled experiment' to see how the Italians manage. If i were him i'd seriously look at moving most production out of Italy as (whilst i understand the fuel protest) they're just not in the same World as many countries. They either want an economy or they don't - there's plenty of people around the World without work & very willing to do the Italians jobs.
Id prefer Fiats & Alfas to be made in Italy but if you snooze you lose, and Italy is well & truly asleep on this one.
Then Tychy (Poland) makes the 500 (including 500c & Abarth), Panda (2003 onwards) & Lancia/Chrysler Ypsilon.
Their Serbian factory will make the new 500L, whilst the Lancia Flavia, Thema & Voyager (plus Chrysler versions) are made in the Chrysler factories in the US & Canada so they do have a fair few outside Italy but it means the following models are still made in Italy:
New Panda (Naples)
Punto & Abarth versions (Melfi)
Bravo (plus Lancia/Chrysler Delta & Alfa Giulietta) in Cassino
Alfa MiTo plus Fiat Idea & Lancia Musa (Mirafiori, Turin)
Obviously that leaves Fiat and Alfa particularly vulnerable, but less so Lancia/Chrysler & Fiat Commercial. Even so im sure Sergio wont be amused as he's quoted as saying at the Geneva motor show that the new Panda production in Naples is a 'controlled experiment' to see how the Italians manage. If i were him i'd seriously look at moving most production out of Italy as (whilst i understand the fuel protest) they're just not in the same World as many countries. They either want an economy or they don't - there's plenty of people around the World without work & very willing to do the Italians jobs.
Id prefer Fiats & Alfas to be made in Italy but if you snooze you lose, and Italy is well & truly asleep on this one.
fiat_freak
Member
Think your comments on Fiat moving production out of Italy are correct. See
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17398363
They are meeting their govt and thereby effectively saying to the unions "If you want our work in Italy you have to stop this nonsense"
Maggie Thatcher all over again!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17398363
They are meeting their govt and thereby effectively saying to the unions "If you want our work in Italy you have to stop this nonsense"
Maggie Thatcher all over again!
fiat_freak
Member
Another very good analysis of fiat factories and profit centres here too
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17397150
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17397150
babbo_umbro
Established member
It's easy for us to forget how much influence unions can have - Italy has a history of placating the unions and putting off having a confrontation, with the results that we're discussing - high absenteeism, poor productivity, lack of flexibility in the labour market and so on, as well as interruptions from strikes (I'm not making an anti-union case, just stating what's happened - the protective practices and 'closed shop' attitude is just as prevalent in many of the upper echelons of Italian industry as well, with just the same damaging results). As a matter of interest, the same attitudes prevail in areas such as planning and local government, with possibly even more damaging results.
I'm afraid I'm pessimistic about Marchionne's chances of making any real progress, he's taking on interests that are too firmly entrenched. It's the same malaise that's landed Greece where it is and the innovative, productive, entrepreneurial activities that are such a strength of Italian industry, and life, are just too weighed down by the opposite forces - I say that as a real friend of Italy and, especially, the Italians - we've had a house there since the late 1980s and are as at home there as in England, but there are certain aspects of it that drive you to distraction.
Italy also has factories in Brazil (the 1300cc engine that was in cars like the 127 Sport and Autobianchi 112 Abarth came from that operation.)
I'm afraid I'm pessimistic about Marchionne's chances of making any real progress, he's taking on interests that are too firmly entrenched. It's the same malaise that's landed Greece where it is and the innovative, productive, entrepreneurial activities that are such a strength of Italian industry, and life, are just too weighed down by the opposite forces - I say that as a real friend of Italy and, especially, the Italians - we've had a house there since the late 1980s and are as at home there as in England, but there are certain aspects of it that drive you to distraction.
Italy also has factories in Brazil (the 1300cc engine that was in cars like the 127 Sport and Autobianchi 112 Abarth came from that operation.)
It certainly is a difficult one for all involved. I just hope that all parties see sense and find a resolution so that production is able to resume before long (and not just because I want my car to turn up!).
Whatever side of the fence you sit on, if cars are not being produced then no-one gains from it at all.
Whatever side of the fence you sit on, if cars are not being produced then no-one gains from it at all.
Derv drinker
New member
Not surprised at this one, carry on building the Panda in Poland. Though I do believe the Polish plant is leased and not owned by Fiat, that is why the Ka is built there as I remember something about this when Ford were contracting the Ka production to the plant, and strikes was mentioned then and it was highlighted it was not a Fiat plant.
